Friends really annoying trait!

[Gallivanterer]

Ive been friends with her for over a decade now and I love her. We're very close. But shes got this one really irritating trait, and I really want to either find a way of bringing it up with her or learning ways of dealing with it. The reason its coming to a head is we are planning a holiday together next year (first time we've been away together).

I cant even summarise this character trait as its so nebulous but let me give you some examples.

• Going to an island for our holiday and I mentioned as well as sea and cultural stuff there would be opportunities to split up and eg could go on some hikes, head to the mountains, etc. She did me a 2 min VM in which she basically reiterated "I mean for me, going here is about the sea, its going to be sea focused for me" over and over again. I was thinking... Yes... I get that, hence why we are going to an island 😅
• Again for the trip, we both do a lot of trusted housesitters, so I suggested nearer the time we could do a mix of accommodation options including trusted housesitters and she said "nope. It'll be a hassle, I want this to be about relaxation".
• I spent years suggesting a particular career change for her that was really in line with her skills and profile, she would always do these really lengthy VMs explaining why my idea was a bad one. Until 6 months ago when she suddenly had this epiphany that this would be a great option for her.

There are countless other examples but I dont want to bore you! I cant put my finger on it, its not about what shes saying its about her tone: she can have a very kind of categoric/dismissive tone on subjects i think should just be relaxed conversations where we're batting ideas back and forth. Its almost like a kind of know it all vibe in which shes kind of dismissing/shutting down debate and I find it really grating.

Ive been meaning to try and find a way of handling this or talking to her about it, but going on holiday has made me think I really need to do it now as we are right at the start of planning so id like to nip it in the bud!

Has anyone got experience with this kind of trait?

Try having some stock phrases in your back pocket to shut it down without gettign dragged in and also so her annoying rants aren't rolling around in your head.

"Ok ok it wasn't a personal attack, I was just saying what I personally like. You don't need to agree with me."
"It was just a throwaway comment, there is no need to over analyse"
"Can we move on please, I was hoping to get something else done with the day"

Honestly though she sounds like hard work.

I used to be friends with someone like this and it was a bit draining. After a few years, I let the friendship fizzle out as I just couldn’t be bothered with the constant negativity towards every single thing I said/suggested/did

Could you ask her if she thinks you make too many suggestions and see what she says?

You've had lots of grreat advice so I will just say, stop listening to the lengthy VMs. I hate long pointless VMs and people who send them unnecessarily often lack self awareness. I had one pedantic friend who would send these and I told her sorry I always forget to listen to VMs as i never remember to come back and listen to them. Just type it out or call me. IMO if they can't be bothered to type up their messages it can't be that important!

Ah OP, I had a friend just like this. The best word I had to describe her was ‘ornery’ - sort of argumentative or ‘contrary’.

If I said I’d like a glass of wine she’d go on about how much she hated wine and preferred gin. If I said, ‘those curtains are blue’, she’d insist they were grey. Every Little Thing. I’d been friends with her for years and her first marriage broken up, in part because her ex said she was so argumentative. Her response was, ‘no I’m not’.

I invited her on a birthday weekend with some other friends she’d not met before. By the end of the weekend I realised I wasn’t going mad, other people noticed it too. I did once (gently) say ‘not everything I say has to be a battle you know?’

On one hand I am very glad she knew her own mind but on the other I could see how this was causing people to fade out of her life - conversation was just so exhausting.

We don’t really see each other much now. It wasn’t a deliberate thing, more just a changing of times/stages of life but I do get it. I’m not sure where it stems from, though in my friend’s case she was a very shy child with very loud, quite dominant parents. I wonder if this was her way of being ‘heard’ as an adult.

I understand OP. I know somebody like this.

Similar to a PP husband, it’s like every conversation is an opportunity to show how correct she is.

She’s very rigid with things - how many calories to lose weight, how many oz of milk babies need, how many hours of sleep kids and babies need, how many steps to walk per day.

there’s no wiggle room for this, she will “research” (google) things and then dish out these figures like gospel, not stopping to think that all people / babies are different. She also dishes out this advice online when people in real life aren’t interested.

She also disagrees with everything. If she moans about her partner, which she often does, saying that he doesn’t help with the kids enough and goes off cycling at bedtime, calling him selfish and inconsiderate etc…,I say “yes that’s a bit shit” and she’ll say “well it’s not really, he works hard (offshore) so when he’s here I understand that he needs to relax”

wtf??

she’s an old school friend and no longer lives in the same town so luckily I don’t have to see her much.

I certainly couldn’t go on holiday with her though.

She makes everything about her? So you say you’re getting a blonde Bob and she applies it to herself? As in, I can’t get one it wouldn’t suit me etc?
I think it’s just her and she can’t help it. May be unaware?

I think the only way is to accept or even embrace this trait. You might say Well, that’s another point of view whenever she contradicts you, then move on.
For things like the hiking issue, if you can guess her response, you might say : I expect you will want to stay in the coast as you love the sea so much, so let’s have a few separate days when I can go hiking.

I don't think you can 'nip this in the bud' by talking to her. Your issue with her is a bit vague and mostly sounds like a personality clash. It's not like there is one specific thing that annoys you, it's a collection of character traits and behaviours that are part of who she is. Asking her to change will be hurtful and will leave her confused and self conscious.

If you really like her and value the friendship you have to train yourself to tolerate these frictions. When they happen, do an internal eye roll and move on to something else. Accept that she's strident in her opinions and is going to express them. And that's ok, just let it wash over you for the sake of the good stuff in the friendship.

My husband is like this. It is very wearing. I think he has pathalogical demand avoidance.
I have to word any suggestions jn a particular way to mitigate against his automatic response of batting back and someyimes even outright refusal. He usually comea around after he has thought it through.
I have read up on PDA and it is a sort of anxiety that is automatically trjggered by feeling a lack of autonomy. So a suggestion would trigger stresd and anxiety in the person and their defence is hostility, or refusal to go along with it. Even if they think its a good idea after they have had time to think more about it and calm down. The immediate response is like pulling the shutters up.

Be grateful you have a friend you can go on holiday with. Make it work. Lots of people on here complaining to not having friends, who have to man up and do stuff by them selves.

I can’t see how you will remain friends if you go on holiday together seeing how she annoys you so much. Mind you, I can’t see why you are friends.

She also disagrees with everything. If she moans about her partner, which she often does, saying that he doesn’t help with the kids enough and goes off cycling at bedtime, calling him selfish and inconsiderate etc…,I say “yes that’s a bit shit” and she’ll say “well it’s not really, he works hard (offshore) so when he’s here I understand that he needs to relax”

Its exactly this!!!

The other day she was saying she couldn't stand certain aspects of where she lives so was thinking about moving, but not sure where.
I was like, "I totally understand: what about (name of town where she knows people and doesn't have the same issues as current town)
And she totally switched and gave me a rundown of why that was a silly idea because of all the good things about her current town.

Its like WTF? Suit yoir fucking self then? 😅

Interesting, I'm going to read up on this!

YABVU op
Cancel the holiday it sounds like you will loose your friendship due to holiday hell. I would distance yourself rather than fall out.

We all probably have annoying traits. It's life.

Yes, I have a friend like this too. I have learnt that even when she asks for advice I need to avoid giving it, instead I try to ask questions. It's like coaching really. She once asked my advice about packing for holidays with children, as I have a lot of kids. I made some suggestions of what worked for me, she told me how it wouldn't work for her. No problem. Quite a lot of years later she told me how amazing my suggestions had been and that she'd been telling anyone, who would listen, about it for years 🤣
We went on holiday a few years ago. I was keen on trying to avoid miscommunication and unrealistic expectations, turns out she really doesn't mean what she says out loud.
I love her to bits. I wouldn't dream of saying anything about it.
She almost certainly finds me equally annoying 😂

God, don't do this - it sounds horrendously patronising! Like you're psychoanalysing your friend! Just accept that this is who she is, she won't change.

I don't agree this is patronising. It's a direct approach to take in the circumstances. which is what's needed here after op having put up with this behaviour for this long.

Holidays can put a strain on the most easygoing of friendships. Honestly, it can be astonishing how much someone can annoy when you are sharing one room and spending 24/7 with them. Even if you agree to split up and spend a day apart, you then have the question of which day suits both. And that’s even when you have similar communication styles and are comfortable being direct and honest with each other.

I would never book a holiday with someone unless I’d been on a couple of weekend trips with them. It might be too late to hold off booking the holiday until you can have a couple of weekends away together, but I’d give it some thought. I don’t want to pee on your parasol, but I think you’re going to have a horrible time, waste a lot of money and probably fall out and ruin a longstanding friendship.

I think sometimes if someone was strongly criticised growing up it can make them very assertive in their opinions / getting their point across about their choices and what they want to do in adult life ax they were never ‘’ allowed to’ when they were growing up . I say this as I have a friend like this. Even getting on a train (which door), which choice of restaurant / pub table if there is a choice … anything! I do think it’s an insecurity of sorts. I just let it go as there are so many other qualities about her that I love and she’s one of my best mates - and we do lots of stuff together.

I think that if she is otherwise a good friend and you enjoy the time you spend with her / get plenty of enjoyment out of the friendship then try and put it down to the 20% or whatever that slightly annoys you but enjoy the 80%.

if your likes / opinions are more distant than that then maybe you aren’t compatible holiday friends.

in the bike situation for example - if she says ‘well as if someone is just going to come and knock on your door!’ Don’t take that personally - just say ‘well you never know with her!’ Or ‘well I wouldn’t put it past her’ (or whatever ) and change the subject. I think you are giving her comments too much thought or value. I know it’s annoying but just bat it back to her and change the subject.

Genuinely confused .. what exactly is her trait?? 😵‍💫😵‍💫

If she’s irritating you (or your both irritating each other) this much from a distance, don’t plan a holiday together! It’s unlikely to go well!
If you haven’t anyone to go away with, go on a singles holiday.
I was pushed/guilt tripped into going away with a friend who could be hard work a few years ago. It was horrendous!

She sounds wearing.

I would be inclined not to offer any suggestions of your own, even when asked as it seems to wind up both of you, leaving you both feeling frustrated and not heard.

Instead you could just ask her a lot of questions or observations about her thoughts.

eg for your example about her town: You could say:

You don't seem happy about where you live. How important is not having/having XYZ aspect to you? Is it a deal breaker? Do you know if new location has that? What are the pros and cons of each? What plans have you made to find out more

etc etc etc

Don't get drawn into giving your opinion. If she asks, you can say in this example, 'it's not me who is considering other town options. This is about what makes you happy. Now tell me more about the XYZ thing that is annoying'.

This way she can't counter argue and you are allowing her to explore her thoughts.

Then stop sharing your thoughts and opinions when she asks.

Thanks for this. I was only reading to find out what a VM was!