AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

We’ve got 11 days coming up of the Sandie Peggie tribunal next week, so this issue is going to be all over the media and social media in the next few weeks.

I would agree that they are not. Men posing as women, maybe - although this must be vanishingly rare. Genuine trans identified women? No threat.

(Please give me data if this is incorrect, but I'm not sure there will be any)

Does anyone think it isn’t a problem when a male NHS doctor states he is biologically female and it’s “hate” to say otherwise?

Well first, I’m going to need to know how you distinguish between these two groups.

How do you distinguish the genuine trans identified men from the men posing as women?

He also states that biological sex is a nebulous dog whistle

Practically? I can't. But for the sake of my allyship I wanted to make the point.

You realise both cases in your example are still men? Really, really, really thinks he's a woman is still a man. It's not even about threat, it's the idea that one is less manly when both are equally XY man.

What is it that makes you think that men who genuinely wish to be women cannot be a threat to women?

What point was that?

If you can't distinguish between "genuine trans identified men" and men posing as women then whatever laws are made needs to recognise that.

You didn’t make the point. No one is denying that some “trans women” truly feel they are women, or that some other men take advantage. It’s not up to women to prove that your selected group of men pose the same risk to women as other men, it’s up to you to prove your extraordinary claim that they pose less risk than other men. Go for it then @Freudianflip

I have no problem with trans people existing and I wish them no ill, but I do have a problem with them encroaching on and undermining women’s rights. Trans are a very small minority. I am a woman, I am a mother of daughters and I will advocate in my interests ahead of supporting what seems quite a misogynistic agenda

I do think there’s an element of you reap what you sow. Woman have been called selfish bigots, likened to Nazi’s, right hoarding dinosaurs threatened with rape and bodily violence for not accepting men into our spaces.

Possibly if there hadn’t been so much trampling of women’s rights in the first place there would be less pushback now?

I mean... you talk of 'men posing as women' as though they are a different category from transwomen. That's literally what a transwoman is! Whether or not they believe they somehow are a woman is neither here nor there.

popcornpower2025

"Threads where someone has called the police because a trans woman was in the toilets washing their hands"

You mean where a man was in the women/girls toilets.

Why is a man in in the women/girls toilets (or changing rooms) at all?

The Supreme Court has made it crystal clear that the law says they must not be there.

So what kind of man is still doing that now do you think?

And I’m very thankful for some of the discussion on mumsnet which has made me realise how dangerous the trans ideology can be and why women need to stand up for our rights

The power of rational thought is not strong with the gender ideologists.

Exactly.

What’s the difference between a man pretending to be a woman and a man pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman?

Inception

I've never read anyone on MN saying something like the only good trans person is a dead trans person

Yet you'll often see "the only good Terf is a dead Terf" at Pride events.

Hmmm, who's being excessively hateful?

Do you have any thoughts on the men identify as women who came onto the lesbian picnic to threaten to turn up and disrupt their event in person and then reported them to the London Authority and the police?

Well that's great for your 'allyship' but how does that help women?

Bonsaibaby

"a clear intolerance of going along with someone’s chosen gender identity"

I think you mean disobedience when told you must join in with a man's fetish. You will see some of that.

When I was younger I used to play in an online MUD as a Wizard/Sorcerer.

I don't scream into peoples faces or threaten them if they don't use my correct title in the supermarket.

Quote some then.

Maybe the kind of person who is now effectively outlawed from all facilities? Can't use male toilets (would risk assault/abuse), can't use female toilets for fear of being challenged/not 'passing'. Its a terrible state of affairs!