AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

!00% agree.
Gender critical, if someone doesn't like it they can duck right off and take their ideas with them. There is so much more to this than loos and changing rooms.

What you seem to be forgetting is that if we cannot accurately define what a woman is - ie and adult human female - then we cannot say we are fighting for the rights of women worldwide.
In addition, it’s really really easy to be concerned about more than one issue at a time. On this thread, we are discussing the alleged ‘hate’ towards men who think they are women and vice versa. So tell me why we would start to also discuss, for example, the abortion laws in the US at the same time? That would be a different discussion on a different thread.

Women don't care one jot about TRA, who want to live their lives. You've got that the other way round.

Well, very few people would have a problem with transpeople who lived their lives without it impacting women and children negatively. This so-called “vitriol” only appeared when males started pushing boundaries and breaching single sexspaces in significant numbers, didn’t it? Almost like no one minds trans people doing their thing unless it makes them less safe, huh? @cranberryhaddock

Have you seen much "benign" commentary from the pro trans lobby?
Because what I have seen are threats and bullying towards any woman who puts her head above that parapet.

Can you point to the threads where MNers were calling for the decapitation, torture or calling for sexual abuse towards transpeople to highlight the "excessively hateful" MNers, because I can point to several instances across social media where such messages have been aimed at those of us on MN.
I have no problem with a man wearing a dress who calls himself Susan (or whatever name he chooses), what I do have a problem with is his demand that I go along with the idea that his right to be treated as a "woman" is deemed more important than my right to feel safe.

How absolutely horrific these posts are.

Very brutish, unfettered, masculine violence.

I know what responses I’ve received when I’ve posted thanks. I look elsewhere for support on this (Bayswater Group)

No one ever has an answer to this, do they. They seem to gloss over all the vile threats of rape and violence from that side of the debate.

That is a good resource. Good luck.

Women can multitask, you know. We can care about those issues as well as care about males in female spaces.

And it's not just about safety, but about dignity and privacy away from males and their gaze. Girls are staying home from school on their period because boys take photos of them and hear them changing their pads in the unisex toilets at school. Women are withholding fluids from themselves at work, risking a urinary tract infection.

These affect women and girls EVERY DAY LIVES.

Yep.

And the women who have been working to bring those issues to attention have been vilified and attacked and abused for being "hateful' for years. Plus ca change.

I appreciate your reply and I didn’t want to ignore you but as per my post, I’d rather not get into it. I do think everyone has a right to express their views and we can’t all agree on everything all the time.

Agree. And some excuse this, and enable it by thinking it’s women who are the issue.

Feminists are highly concerned with all of those things. I know women who work tirelessly to change things in these areas.

However it’s all bollocks if we can’t say who is a woman. Including some men as women on their say so, means that women cannot fight for all the single sex issues that need to be solved.

And anyway, what’s wrong with being a TW? A mental illness means they feel happier conforming to a gender of choice, where’s the problem, get on with it. Have the common decency though to understand that your identity isn’t going to be validated by everyone around you, and if you try to force your way into women’s spaces expect kick back.
The mental illness and “just want to pee” argument collapses when you learn about AGP and the fact that a great many men are living out their fetish on unconsenting women. It’s hard to unsee once you’ve seen it - and yes, I know several TW, and more trans children being damaged by this godawful ideology.

Did OP or any of the ‘trans allies’ ever come back with any examples of a vitriolic post?

Or does it all just still reside in their imagination?

What is vile and tedious is being called bigots without a shred of reasoned debate other than the ‘lovely friends’ argument which does not hold water when you look at male offending rates.

My DH wouldn't hurt a fly but it’s right and proper that he’s kept out of women’s spaces. What is ‘vile and tedious’ about that? Please explain. 🙏🏻

Yes and the allies wonder why women are standing up against this ideology.

We're the haterz though 🙄.

It’s not allowing a man to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. Duh!

Why is it always the trans allies that ‘don’t want to get into it’ (and can’t provide examples)? Why can’t you get into wanting males in women’s spaces and sports? Why can’t you defend your position?

When the movement's aim is to remove safeguards and boundaries and put fully intact males in female only intimate single sex spaces, what else would you call it?

Answer that.

Actually I can tell you that my family member does speak up and has challenged one of her professors who has published a paper on 'trans children'. Deathly silence of course but it was vital in her opinion to question the affirming nature of the speaker. She's a trainee clinican.
Another friends son challenged a famous actor over LGBT rights. He was banned from the student union for a bit!

I agree with you OP.

I support women’s right and trans rights. I am against biological men in toilets, prisons, sporting events but also support their should be a separate toilet or changing place for trans people to feel safe and supported. I feel there is space for everyone and we should be supporting that. Anyone who is strongly against biological men on toilets should be rallying for them to have their own space while keeping women only but I never really see that.

It remind me of the 70s / 80s when people were against gay people. They thought it was unnatural or disgusting and people didn’t have to support someone’s mental illness.

We were suggesting safe third spaces for trans people a decade ago. You know what we got? We got called bigots. We got rape threats. We were threatened with violence.

I agree with you, I find Mumsnet really helpful for relationship and other advice and just stay out of any of the trans debates as it is alarming and I don't think I get anywhere if I tried to challenge opinions on it.