Nursery hand over comment. Would you complain?

[Evelyynn]

Btw I’m not the parent. Or the nursery practitioner.

If your child was handed over to you, and the practitioner said ‘’we’ve had to have a chat with childs name today, as she hasn’t been using kind words to staff and has had a bit of an attitude’’. Would this be something you’d complain the manager about, the use of the word ‘attitude’? The child is 3.

I’m not calling the child innapropriate- it was a description of the words. What I have been objecting to on this thread is people calling a three year old child “rude”, “unpleasant”, having “an attitude”.

And I think you're unbelievably wrong on that last point.

I actually don’t think I am.

Kids need firm guidance and boundaries

Yes they absolutely do. But what they absolutely don’t need - like a hole in the head - is judgement and labels, assigned to them through age innapropriate adult projection, and without the full context. I happen to work in a relevant field and was listening just last week to teenagers with challenges talk about how they experienced teachers’ attitudes towards them at school and how this affected their self worth. It was totally heart breaking.

And we’re not talking about troubled teenagers here , were talking about children in nursery school. Three years old. Three! 🤯

@Blessthismess2 I can see where you’re coming from in the sense that 3 year olds aren’t rude, they are young children imitating what they see. I
Would like to point out that working with 3 year olds requires endless patience and I think previous posters are frustrated with a non-early years practitioner coming on and talking about toddlers who shouldn’t be referred to as rude.

You talk about negative attitudes towards young people causing mental health problems but I think the new approach of being gentle with children and not telling them or being firm, in fear of upsetting them, to be just as damaging.

You say you have exceptionally well behaved children, any parent I’ve ever heard say that is the type of conceited parent that makes our job harder.

Im always wary of any self proclaimed experts in
older children who make errors such as use toddler to describe a 3 or 4 year old.

I Would like to point out that working with 3 year olds requires endless patience and I think previous posters are frustrated with a non-early years practitioner coming on and talking about toddlers who shouldn’t be referred to as rude.

yes I can understand that, but this was a thread where we were invited to share our opinion on whether this language was appropriate to describe a 3 year old. I don’t think it was.

You say you have exceptionally well behaved children, any parent I’ve ever heard say that is the type of conceited parent that makes our job harder.

I would like to point out that the only reason I said this was because I had repeatedly been accused by pp’s of having the opinions I do because I’m a “terrible parent” and therefore I have horribly behaved , rude, violent children. This was used to discredit me as a person so that my views could be more easily dismissed.
After this was said several times I decided to share the actual context- because it’s true.
I’m not the sort of person to go around bragging about my children by any means, and the comments about my children’s behaviour comes directly from teachers , other parents and also children. I don’t happen to think I’m anything special as a parent, I think it’s more to do with their personalities- the first for example is quite anxious and shy- she doesn’t like attention so she would be mortified to do anything wrong that would bring negative attention on her at school.

However, if my children did have behavioural challenges, I would 100% be standing behind them to ensure that those responsible for their care and development treated them in an age / development appropriate manner and without projection and judgement. It’s the least any parent can do for their child.

I understand that being a teacher can be hard , but so is being a 3 year old, or a teenager, or any child. The difference is a teacher is an adult, with professional responsibilities that they are paid for, who’s chosen to be there and to work with children.

I know there’s a fashion these days for viewing children/ young people as horrendously behaved and blaming it on modern parenting. I don’t see that at all. Modern parenting techniques have their flaws- being completely impractical much of the time is one. But there’s actually a lot of wisdom in them too, and some of it is really important for raising emotionally intelligent kids, and avoiding many of the very harmful parenting practices of the past.

We do have an epidemic at the moment of poor mental health amongst CYP- which no doubt has a range of complex causes . I’m actually really concerned about teacher attitudes on mumsnet (I haven’t actually encountered these in real life- but again that’s maybe because I have well behaved children) . I have heard first hand the profound negative impacts these attitudes can have on self esteem and wellbeing in vulnerable teenagers.

As for a 3 year old being a toddler- clearly people understand the word in different ways 🤷🏼‍♀️, but most resources state 1-3 is a toddler. It’s neither here nor there to the substance of the conversation.

But your children do have behavioural challenges, just of a different sort than the child in the OP. Practitioners can tell the difference between "impeccably behaved" and so anxious they are scared to do anything. Your child's are doing you both a disservice if they aren't speaking to you clearly about this. You're making that posters point very well, and you don't even seem to realise it.

Thank you anonymous poster on the internet, for your feedback on my children you have never met 😂.

I assure you that no professional / practitioner who has ever encountered them has ever thought for a moment that they have behavioural challenges.
The feedback that I consistently receive is that they are exceptionally well behaved, cooperative, kind, pro-social, popular with children and teachers alike. None have ever been violent to another child in nursery or school. My eldest- despite being social and outgoing in some ways- is also v conscientious, self conscious and shy and doesn’t like to draw attention to herself - positive or negative. We all have different personalities.

However, this thread is not about my children is it?

I feel sorry for @Blessthismess2banging her head against the proverbial wall in this thread, and I'm impressed she hasn't gotten frustrated with childcare professionals seeming to largely ignore current child development understanding and/or what an opinionated word is. I guess that's because she's well aware that she is correct and can articulate it well.

As @Blessthismess2has said, 'rude' is cultural, but it is also 'class' orientated and can be very individual. There are lots of made up rules British society has about what is rude and what is not. To expect a 3 year old to 'not be rude' to proper British standards is mental.

Here are some ways to describe 'rude' behaviour in a 3 year old who is very much in the early days of developing their understanding and personality:

• distracted or unfocused
• uncooperative
• interrupting
• over excited

These are the words I would expect to hear in an adult to adult conversation about 'rude' behaviour (not about biting or pushing or outright aggression).

Possibly because they are (excluding ND):

• frustrated
• tired
• hungry
• out of routine
• overstimulated
• mentally exhausted
• poorly
• hot
• missing their parent or caregiver/s

There's always a cause in an otherwise happy and cooperative child.

However, I really do empathise with my nursery staff, so on hand over (while my child is present) if they say "he's been a bit grumpy today" or "we've had a bit of cheekiness" or "he was being a bit silly" I am extremely grateful for their patience, and I don't think they are wrong. I think they've been dealing with 15 pre-schoolers for 8+ hours and they don't have the energy or need to formulate a complex behaviour analysis during the 60 second hand over that my son is present for. He's not like that all day every day, so it's then my job to use that snippet of information to try and decode what he's been feeling at nursery and why. Often that's just a chat or two with him that encourages empathy and understanding for himself and others, perhaps followed by a few tweaks to practical things. The word 'rude' would never come into it, but we are fine with 'bad mood/grumpy/silly' - ie states of being that a 3 year old can actually understand and are appropriate. 'Cheekiness' isn't a word we really use at home, but I assume it's nursery shorthand for a combo of uncooperative and over excited.

Exactly. Thank you!!

@DonnyBurrito i did say rude was an opinion!

However, not one person has ‘ignored’ child development, especially the professionals amongst us!

what we have done is use our expertise and experience, to explain what we mean. All of which has been largely ignored by @Blessthismess2 and her perfect parenting!

All of which has been largely ignored by and her perfect parenting!

Now this , on the other hand, definitely meets the definition of rude. (especially since I never claimed to be a perfect parent, in fact the only time I mentioned my parenting I stated quite the opposite).

It’s a shame that adults can’t accept people having a different or challenging opinion without resulting to personal attacks.

It isn’t a personal attack, it’s sarcasm! I’m sorry you feel I have been rude. Perhaps after posts and posts of you dismissing the experience of several, and then the essay by @DonnyBurrito thinking that your views had been ignored, when that just wasn’t the case, I felt a bit got at!

Oh and @Blessthismess2 just because we don’t agree, doesn’t mean I don’t ‘accept’ your opinion! At all! What a boring world we would live in if we just had to accept viewpoints without debate!

Thus ends my replies to this thread!

If you consider my post an essay, I can only assume you haven't got an undergrad or post-grad degree, and certainly nothing higher. There's been talk on here about the 'expertise' of 'highly educated' nursery staff, but apparently a relatively short post (that mostly consisted of bullet points) got you ruffled.

Apology accepted . I’m sorry you felt “got at”. In sure you are an excellent practitioner . I just felt differently about the use of certain words for 3 year olds. Maybe I could have expressed myself better x

Multiple paragraphs (the last of which is quite large!) and two snippets of bullet points! Is hardly a ‘short post.’ Essay is also code for a big post, which in comparison to the majority of posts on here, your bullet pointed monologue was quite big yes.

Assume makes an ass out of u and me….in this case, just you! I have a degree (undergraduate) and have started post grad qualifications.

If you suspect I’m ruffled by your post then you’re also wrong on that count too!

My god i bet your friend is hard work

Calling 400ish words an essay on Mumsnet is a bit of a stretch. Best of luck with the 15k dissertation.

@Blessthismess2 I think they can act and say what they feel like without a filter at that age. It’s a prime time for guiding them on basics of politeness, waiting their turn, sharing, please, thank yous - even listening certainly not hitting, biting, shoving etc.
if they’re not behaving like they’ve received this kind of guidance at home it will show up at nursery. The hard part is doing it in such a way where they aren’t scared or upset or their personalities squashed but understand if they do develop “manners” it helps them fit in to wider society. (Or it used to!)
In this instance the nursery worker probably used slightly the wrong term but the essence is there “this kid needs guidance on behaving better in a group”

It’s pretty clear where the child is learning the attitude problem from. Your friend sounds a like grade A pain in the arse who’s raising a child in the same mould.

Nursery owner here - the nursery is responsible for the social development of the child whilst in their care. If the child exhibits behaviour that may need looking at - it’s the nursery’s job to bring it to the parents attention - it should be a cohesive relationship!! Childhood and parenthood is life’s steepest learning curve - how arrogant of your friend to take exception to well-meaning and necesssry guidance from professionals

you’re being ridiculous complaining about this - don’t be surprised if you get short shift - don’t be that parent!! (Your friend obvs)

This thread is intense!

I just dropped in to say that if there’s any whiff of a racialised element to this that could also change things. For example, if the child is black the use of the word “attitude” may be really offensive to the mother as feeding into tropes about black people, esp girls.

Sounds like the apple didn't fall far from the tree - your friend has a bad attitude if this is her reaction. Rather than ask or consider if her child has been behaving badly, she is complaining about being told?

Brilliant. And people ask if I miss teaching.

I see where the child gets the attitude from.

Very unprofessional of them to tell you this rather than call the mum to pass the message on.

The mental health field does that sadly.

I would think that the nursery worker has a very poor grasp of child development and unreasonable expectations of a three year old. She should be curious as to why the child is behaving like that, particularly if it is out of character. Behaviour is communication. The parent is not being unreasonable