Nursery hand over comment. Would you complain?

[Evelyynn]

Btw I’m not the parent. Or the nursery practitioner.

If your child was handed over to you, and the practitioner said ‘’we’ve had to have a chat with childs name today, as she hasn’t been using kind words to staff and has had a bit of an attitude’’. Would this be something you’d complain the manager about, the use of the word ‘attitude’? The child is 3.

Of course violent is subjective. For example if I bite you but it doesn't hurt. Or throw a toy at your head, but miss. Or push you over then say it was an accident. No more subjective than calling you a "dumbo head" which is obviously intended to be rude.
I never disagreed that 3 year old do those things. But you have to identify them as negative things in order to combat them. If you can observe violence, then you can observe rudeness. And if you think a 3yo is incapable of intentional rudeness, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

Maybe we are using the word “rude” differently .

To me “rude” is entirely subjective and “unpleasant” is a value judgement . what I mean is, for example,

if I as a British person commented to my friend that she was fat, I’d be being rude, mean and unpleasant.

If my colleague in rural Uganda told me I was fat, she’d be paying me a compliment.

If my toddler commented someone was fat she would be making an observation or perhaps copying someone else. She wouldn’t think about/ understand how it might make someone else feel. Of course I would then explain to her that we mustn’t comment on people’s size as it can be hurtful/ rude , but in no way shape or form would I describe her behaviour as being “rude” or “unpleasant” any more than I would call my Ugandan colleague rude and unpleasant for paying me what she thought was a compliment.

I’d be really concerned at a childcare practitioner describing her as having an “attitude”. She simply doesn’t have the maturity for that.

Ahh well, we will have to agree to disagree about 3 year olds as well as what constitutes rudeness .

I’m pretty sure that your 3 year old is calling you a “dumbo head” because they think it’s funny and out of humour, endearment and affection . I wouldn’t consider that “negative behaviour” personally . But you do you!

Interesting that you used Uganda as an example. My DH is Ugandan, I lived there for many years. Fat isn't always a compliment 😂

Calling someone fat was generally a complement where I lived for many years- v rural. People used to say it to me sometimes - I wasn’t in the least bit fat - sz 8 - and they weren’t in the least bit rude or unpleasant people. It still bothered me though ofc.

Sorry I just realised I used the word toddler again 😂. If my 3 yr old…

😂😂😂 This can’t be real! You’d be hard pressed to find a toddler who has never had an attitude and it’s a perfectly acceptable way to describe it.

To me it’s an age- innapropriate label/ adult projection. It’s like when people say “oh so and so 3 yr old is such a flirt”. Gives me the proper ick.

It isn't like that at all. 3yos lack the biological urge to flirt. They absolutely do possess the ability to be mean if they want to.

Oh, for goodness’ sake. My 3 year old knows fine well when she’s being rude.

Imagine being one of two adults in room of 22 3 yr olds. Thankfully the overwhelming majority do have impulse control, do not back answer staff, do not hit or bite or physically attack their classmates and are generally just lovely. They can follow direction, if given clearly and can sit down and listen for a limited period. They can put coats and shoes on and off, wash hands, wipe bums, tidy up toys, open and close lunchboxes and many can pour water from a jug to a cup. I think you have a very low expectation of 3 year old behaviour.

Ah well I really disagree. I guess OP’s friend does too.

www.pbs.org/parents/thrive/toddlers-and-self-control-a-survival-guide-for-parents

Totally agree the majority of 3 year olds do know how not to be rude, have attitude or be violent to others. Also there is a huge difference between being just 3 or being 3 nearly 4.

having to talk to parents at pick up time regarding behaviour is few and far between.

This is honestly just so weird to me for a nursery school setting to be talking like this. It’s nursery!!!! “Having to talk to parents” about children “having an attitude”. Wtaf,

God absolutely not! If that was my child, I’d be following up at home immediately. My 4 year old was silly at nursery a couple of weeks ago, and I had a long chat with her at home about her behaviour, then checked in with her key worker after that to check she was behaving herself! None of this ‘my child can do no wrong’ crap.

Parents like this are SUCH a pain in the arse (and there are so many more of them than when I started teaching!).

@Blessthismess2 thanks for the link but I have a degree in early years education and many years experience. Remember a parents perspective is very different, they know their child in a home environment, most children behave differently in a school type setting. Of course all children are unique but there are still patterns and types of behaviour and personality. Nursery staff can vary in terms of experience and education and personal opinion on behaviour, but the thing they are experts on is observing how a particular child behaves in a group setting in relation to their peers. Sometimes this expertise is diminished by parents who think they know more based on experience of one or two children. If someone observes that your child is behaving differently to their peer group, then alarm bells need to start ringing.

You honestly make me laugh so much. No wonder so many children have problems with boundaries and behaviour when there are parents about with your attitude and mindset.

So what do you suggest we (every nursery I've worked in) as early years workers do when a child is repeatedly showing negative behaviour?

Just accept it or speak to parents and discuss strategies to assist?

Please tell me what you advise so that I can go into my work tomorrow and suggest it to all the other highly qualified early years workers that I work with. Please remember this is repetitive negative behaviour eg swearing, hitting, spitting.

Im intrigued.

interesting as I’m known for having exceptionally well behaved children, and have had nothing but glowing feedback from any setting they have attended to date.

What do I suggest you do? Well firstly accept that 3 year olds are only just staring to develop impulse control and emotional regulation and have a long long way to go before they have the physical development, cognitive and emotional maturity and social awareness and experience to self regulate and to understand the consequences and impact of their behaviour on others.

Furthermore , you will be aware of course that different children develop at different rates and some will be even further behind.

Of course you should speak to parents about managing behaviour , but I absolutely fail to understand why you think you are unable to do so without imposing age inappropriate labels and value judgements on the child’s intentions? When they are 3? I’m not understanding this at all,

Is anybody really known for having exceptionally well behaved children? I really don't think that is a thing. Have your DC actually attended nursery?
How would you have nursery communicate that a child has been hurling insults around all day and disobeying instructions for the sake of it? Is there really a nice way of saying that? And how do you know that nursery are wrong about the child's intentions? They've been there all day, so it's not just baseless labels and assumptions.

Be thankful you have very well behaved children as many children do not have the guidance that your children obviously have had.
This week alone my colleague has a black eye, as a child kicked them when being spoken to about using gentle hands and yes this was a 4year old.

Also you have previously mentioned how absurd it is taking to parents about behaviour but then you suggest that we need to speak to parents about behaviour. So you're even confusing yourself.

I don't label any children but I speak factually to parents about my concerns in the hope that we can work together.

If you want to do my job for a day ill happily swap and we can see how amazing a practitioner you are when you are faced with challenging behaviour.

Honestly after this thread I'll be looking for a job in Tesco, must be easier than dealing with parents who know my job better than me!

I really don't think that is a thing

why?

Have your DC actually attended nursery?

yes.

How would you have nursery communicate that a child has been hurling insults around all day and disobeying instructions for the sake of it? well for a start I’d remove the “for the sake of it”. This is exactly what I’m talking about. Wtf?

I completely fail to understand why you can’t describe the behaviour without assigning judgement , bad intentions or labels. Why can’t you just say “your child has been using these innapropriate words. This is how we’ve been managing it. At home could you…”

Honestly if these are the attitudes towards three year olds these days, no wonder so many kids have such poor mental health .

Because nobody is known for having exceptionally well behaved children. Known by who? By what metric?
Why can you call a word "inappropriate" but not rude? You're just being pedantic. Arguably a 3yo is far more capable of grasping rudeness than appropriateness.
And lets please remember that this wasn't a private conversation if OP was in earshot. Nursery were probably being diplomatic because others were around. You probably would have liked it even less had nursery gone into great detail of all the rude things child said and all the things OP friend obviously isn't doing about it at home.
And I think you're unbelievably wrong on that last point. Permissive parenting is why kids are struggling. Kids need firm guidance and boundaries. We cannot deal with the cause of poor behaviour if we are too scared to identify it in the first place.

After reading yiur last reply. I'm calling it a day for this thread, you would argue that black was white just for the fun of it. Ypu are definitely getting a kick out of it but this is my work, that i would so hard at.

Oh and we would never say could you do x,y or z at home we would ask the parent what they would do and then we would make suggestions too.

I'm so glad that parents like you are so far and few between. We have a couple who we all try and dodge at pick up time because they have a comment or complaint about EVERYTHING!

@2chocolateoranges @Digdongdoo @Dontlletmedownbruce

Bless this mess is clearly the OPs friend! Or similar. It’s just not worth it! Several have tried. With their experience and still they disagree and their experience is incorrect! They are not for changing! I implore them to get a job in education and then come back to us in a few months time. They are the perfect parent and raised the perfect kids…think Bree Van de Kamp if you remember desperate housewives (though fictional we all know what happened there!!) but they are the reason so many educators are leaving in their droves!

They are (one of) the reason(s) why despite pumping tens of thousands into my degree, resources, the time an effort at the detriment of my own DC, I am thinking of leaving teaching within the next ten years! Because, in 3 years I will be the wrong side of forty and I will be damned if I’m going to start accepting that people who never say no to their kids, have the right to have a go over whether I should ‘speak to’ not ‘shout at’ a child about what is acceptable!