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Thread 6: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

1000 replies

DisappointedReader · 12/07/2025 23:41

The Observer The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

Second article in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-whats-in-the-book-and-what-the-observer-has-found

Third item in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-the-truth-behind-the-blockbuster-book-video

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Thread 2 Thread 2. To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

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Thread 5 Thread 5: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement Raynor Winn

NB Please be careful when it comes to naming or implicating people who aren't in the public eye or have no connection to the story, especially where details are unclear or still emerging i.e. DON'T DO IT.

Keep on the path. No saltiness. Thank you.

New posters welcome. It would be helpful to read at least the three Observer articles before posting.

The real Salt Path: what’s in the book, and what The Obse...

The real Salt Path: what’s in the book, and what The Obse...

Raynor and Moth Winn’s redemptive journey from penury and homelessness led to a bestselling book. The truth behind it is very different

https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-whats-in-the-book-and-what-the-observer-has-found

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
HonoriaBulstrode · 13/07/2025 15:09

There are worse places to be than Cornwall and Wales too! I'm not sure they are as keen to get to Burton-On-Trent however...

I believe Burton on Trent used to be known as a centre of the brewing industry...

Seems a natural progression, following the vin ordinaire and the cider.

(I envisage a load of hacks touring around in a rickety bus - an old Routemaster, possibly - following the latest tip.)

ThatFluentHedgehog · 13/07/2025 15:09

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 09:15

Landlines was the one where they did the gruelling Cape Wrath Trail - a walk that makes the SWCP look like a stroll along the prom prom prom.

After Cape Wrath they did the West Highland Way, then some walking in the Borders, then some of the Pennine Way.

Well, they say they did. I doubt they did anything but a cursory few miles just to get a feel for the landscape so she could write about it.

Edited

Agree. UK walking miracle cure non-fiction is the genre of successful book TSP so they needed to keep producing pulp fiction real life stories in that niche.

SmellsLikeTippex · 13/07/2025 15:13

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 14:20

Just read the piece from the person who's not only an industry insider, but who worked at PRH for 28 years.

Basically - publishers don't care.

In my experience, publishers will go to great lengths to avoid difficult conversations with authors.

I witnessed this first hand at Penguin Random House a couple of years ago when Wifedom, prize-winning author Anna Funder’s acclaimed biography of Eileen Orwell, faced public criticism from experts over historical inaccuracies.

Although the publisher and the author eventually agreed to correct these in future editions, the in-house concerns I observed were first and foremost to defend and protect the reputation of a valuable author. In such an atmosphere, to raise any qualms about the authenticity of an author of the hugely money-spinning status of Raynor Winn would require some chutzpah.

https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-revelations-should-be-no-surprise-to-anyone-in-publishing

You see, it surprises me that anyone thinks that’s surprising. My only experience of fact-based publishing is in academic publishing within my humanities field, where I’ve published monographs and edited collections with one of the big university presses and other big, reputable publishers, and also been a peer reviewer for the main journals in the field and for various presses.

My first big monograph was read and acquired by the committee of that university press, and it was peer-reviewed by three anonymous reviewers when I submitted the MS. But, bluntly, it couldn’t have been ‘fact-checked’, because at that point the only expert in the precise subject I had written about was me, after years of research. Anyone wanting to check whether my author did the thing I said he did in whatever year, based on a letter in an archive, would have had to pay someone to look it up in that archive. And do exactly the same for all of the hundreds of references throughout, which took me years to put together. My editor wasn’t a specialist in my specific field. The peer reviewers would have been people who’d published on adjacent topics working for a token fee. I peer-reviewed a biography of a famous writer for a big US academic press a couple of years ago. It probably took me a week to read and write my report on the multiple problems with the MS, for which I was paid $200.

Obviously commercial publishing is different. You don’t get an advance for academic publishing, print runs are tiny, royalties are tiny, and you do it because the research component of your job requires you to disseminate your research, and to participate in peer-reviewing etc. But there’s a similar problem in that it simply isn’t possible for anyone to fact check every assertion. It would take as long as the original book did to write.

I don’t think Wifedom is a good comparison, as, as a feminist recovery of George Orwell’s first wife, it got up a lot of people’s noses, and the majority of the corrections were from the children of Orwell’s friends saying things like ‘I have a letter that proves he wasn’t in fact unfaithful to Eileen with my mother’. The publisher was fending off potential lawsuits in correcting such things. The central tenet of the book (Orwell was a gifted writer, but in many ways a misogynist wanker) was never queried, except by people getting sniffy about ‘applying the standards of today to a marriage in the early 20thc.’

You might say that PRH’s due diligence should have included some paperwork that established the reality of the court case that lost the Walkers their house, sure. It’s possible they were shown some medical letters referring to Moth’s illness as a box-ticking exercise, but didn’t check them against the supposed timeline. But no one in commercial publishing is going to check how realistic their rate of progress was, look up their children’s SM for things that don’t fit, or interview former neighbours like an investigative journalist. (Or indeed, as posters on Tattle increasingly do to say influencers are misrepresenting their lives.)

PandoraSocks · 13/07/2025 15:14

placemats · 13/07/2025 13:33

Still they persist.

The outcome should be the truth. Just to add that I do feel for those taken in by the reversal of symptoms.

I agree. SW should just tell the truth about everything now. TW clearly is genuinely ill and I think that would mean the public would be more willing to forgive and forget.

WanderingWisteria · 13/07/2025 15:16

My own musing as to why this has come out is that it might be linked to the Tortoise Media purchase of the Observer. This is purely personal
speculation but I wonder if one of the investors in that knows Bill Cole or Richard - or knows someone who knows them - and they were at a party or something and someone mentioned they had gone to or were off to see the TSP film and someone else mentioned that it all sounded a bit odd to them as they had heard that Moth only had weeks to live a couple of years ago and yet here he was involved in the publicity tour. As I said, pure speculation but that might have been the spark which then sent Chloe H off on her way.
I couldn’t sleep last night due to the heat and ended up skimming through bits of TSP. It is extraordinary to re-read it now. I was always a bit suspicious of bits of it but so much of it has now been exposed as a lie that you really wonder if any of it is true. I’m reading on a Kindle so can’t give page numbers but, at the beginning, when talking the fact that her last minute evidence isn’t accepted SW says “wasted my perfect piece of paper, with the perfect white truth”. Of course, this piece of paper that would have got them off the hook can’t have actually existed. Perhaps the only accurate thing is that their credit rating is on the floor! It is fascinating.
I have always dipped in & out of reading The Guardian but never The Observer. When checking for updates this week, I’ve read some entirely unrelated articles on their website and enjoyed them so they may have gained a new reader.

DisappointedReader · 13/07/2025 15:16

Bruisername · 13/07/2025 14:59

It didn't help her remember why they lost the house!!!!

Certainly the other house in France they have neglected may need rebuilding by now and their creditors may seek to reclaim what is lost taken. I wonder if that is what RaySal meant?

OP posts:
AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 13/07/2025 15:18

SmellsLikeTippex · 13/07/2025 14:15

What fun! Did he really?

In my London days I knew a slightly hapless photographer who was assigned to sit on his motorbike outside the Beckhams’ front gate to try to get photos of them coming in and out. For days at a time.

Though these days it’s more ‘citizen paparazzi’ stuff, with everyone taking surreptitious photos of random celebrities looking rough coming out of a shop.

I do feel for famous people with everyone having a camera phone these days, it must be very uncomfortable sometimes. Especially if they have their children with them.

You saying about your photographer friends reminds me of a story I heard Noel Gallagher tell about how in the 70s a Sunday out used to involve his parents driving them all over to George Bests house where they'd all stand on the drive and just watch him watch telly.
Different times!

PandoraSocks · 13/07/2025 15:18

Re question to me from a pp, whom I won't quote: They weren't willing to co -operate because Walker wanted them to keep the discussions secret. She seems to like a secret.

Bruisername · 13/07/2025 15:22

I think Chloe h said they agreed to the terms but then they went silent - so hoping they couldn’t publish without having the convo first I suppose

one thing I find weird - sw says she received death threats since the article was published. Assuming that’s true - I would really like to understand the psychology behind people who do that. Is it just because social media is anonymous? I can understand people being upset about her lies but death threats is crazy behaviour

DisappointedReader · 13/07/2025 15:22

HonoriaBulstrode · 13/07/2025 15:09

There are worse places to be than Cornwall and Wales too! I'm not sure they are as keen to get to Burton-On-Trent however...

I believe Burton on Trent used to be known as a centre of the brewing industry...

Seems a natural progression, following the vin ordinaire and the cider.

(I envisage a load of hacks touring around in a rickety bus - an old Routemaster, possibly - following the latest tip.)

Followed by RaySal's birthplace and childhood home of Melton Mowbray for the pork pies perhaps.

OP posts:
FlyAgaricc · 13/07/2025 15:23

It wouldn't have been hard for Penguin to do some basic fact checking. All they had to do was ask Sally for proof of the diagnosis and proof of the financial dispute. How long would that take? They are a massive publisher who is trusted by the public. I think they should share some of the responsibility. They can't just publish anything that anyone says. Especially medical stuff

ThatFluentHedgehog · 13/07/2025 15:25

EternalLodga · 13/07/2025 08:12

Interesting. So why has this happened then?

My theory is that there was more for this week but they've had to pause for on some stuff due to a criminal investigation into the couple.

That said, this article firmly underlines their true natures and MO. Sob story (untrue one), live in a nice place at others' expense, take advantage in every way available, midnight flit.

Going from messaging most days when BC was useful to them, to leaving a note on the kitchen table when he'd fulfilled his purpose.

placemats · 13/07/2025 15:28

But what are secrets? Are they from the land, the sea or the mind? All of us hold secrets to our hearts to protect the ones we love. In that way redemption lies, like the land and the sea.

Anyone can write this. Facts do matter though, especially when it comes to a diagnosis of disease, disability and illness. Not forgetting liss of trust and monies outstanding.

@PandoraSocks

DisappointedReader · 13/07/2025 15:30

Bruisername · 13/07/2025 15:22

I think Chloe h said they agreed to the terms but then they went silent - so hoping they couldn’t publish without having the convo first I suppose

one thing I find weird - sw says she received death threats since the article was published. Assuming that’s true - I would really like to understand the psychology behind people who do that. Is it just because social media is anonymous? I can understand people being upset about her lies but death threats is crazy behaviour

Have I missed where RaySal says the threats were death threats? This is what her statement says:

'Over the past few days, I have had vitriol poured on me from all quarters, along with threats directed at me, my family, and our children.'

Threats come in all forms. Threats to go to the newspapers to expose more, for example. Has she claimed death threats elsewhere?

OP posts:
placemats · 13/07/2025 15:31

PandoraSocks · 13/07/2025 15:18

Re question to me from a pp, whom I won't quote: They weren't willing to co -operate because Walker wanted them to keep the discussions secret. She seems to like a secret.

Meant to add this to my last post.

placemats · 13/07/2025 15:34

"Vitriol poured on ME from all quarters" is heavy lifting there.

OpenThatWindow · 13/07/2025 15:35

TW clearly is genuinely ill

Is he, though?

Bruisername · 13/07/2025 15:35

DisappointedReader · 13/07/2025 15:30

Have I missed where RaySal says the threats were death threats? This is what her statement says:

'Over the past few days, I have had vitriol poured on me from all quarters, along with threats directed at me, my family, and our children.'

Threats come in all forms. Threats to go to the newspapers to expose more, for example. Has she claimed death threats elsewhere?

My bad - I was reading on a small screen!

yes it would be curious to know the nature of the threats and whether it was things like ‘I know you stole from the blah hotel and I’m going to contact the journalist’ type threats

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 15:36

I can't find who said this now, I'm on my phone, but I wasn't meaning I thought they went up to parts of the Cape Wrath Trail then went back to Cornwall then went back up again.

I mean more that they went up there (and all the other places), did some walking for the book, stayed there, but did a lot more driving in between the parts they did, or trains or whatever. Same with the rest of their 1000 miles, then at the end went home.

SmellsLikeTippex · 13/07/2025 15:37

ThatFluentHedgehog · 13/07/2025 14:51

It's called trust @sualipa. Did you give the article a read from his point of view at all, or only with a view to keep on defending the confidence tricksters? You mentioned in a previous thread you see them as the underdog, but I have no idea why. They've lived in a series of lovely places at the expense of others.

BC also states his wife had doubts:

'After reading how Raynor and Moth needed a home, Bill told his wife he might have found their next tenants. “She looked at me like she was going to kill me and said : Don’t even think about it! ” But Bill made the couple an offer to live on the farm for a very low rent with a small fee for helping out.'

observer.co.uk/news/national/article/moth-told-me-he-was-dying-when-a-doctor-had-said-his-brain-scan-was-normal

I think her doubts were because she wanted him to sell the farm, because it was an obsession with him (this ‘dream of returning to the land’), and he seems to have had unsatisfactory previous tenants. RW quotes his wife, when she meets her, saying she’d been furious when he first said he’d offered it to the Walkers because the farm had been ‘a huge financial and emotional black hole’ for him. The whole family had been planning to move there from London before his wife got breast cancer, and by the time she’d recovered, his ‘focus had moved on’ and the children were too settled in their London schools, plus his wife just didn’t want to go and live out his dream. She just wants him to sell it and stop having sleepless nights about it.

Interestingly, Raynor gives ‘Rachel’, the wife, a cancer survivor, a bit of side eye as she describes her in TWS, as this powerful figure who might pull the plug on them, and who gives her ‘a hug that held a casual, assured resilience’:

I watched Rachel as she looked across the land, a woman who had the power to end a dream or fan the flame

She’s really good at biting the hand that feeds them, or if not exactly biting, snarling slightly at it .😀

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 15:38

OpenThatWindow · 13/07/2025 15:35

TW clearly is genuinely ill

Is he, though?

Yes, I think the letters confirm he's ill. From something that was once thought to be mild CBD, but since 2019, has had at least one consultant think it could be something else.

It behoves the medical profession to explore that because it could help someone else in the future who presents similarly.

placemats · 13/07/2025 15:38

placemats · 13/07/2025 15:28

But what are secrets? Are they from the land, the sea or the mind? All of us hold secrets to our hearts to protect the ones we love. In that way redemption lies, like the land and the sea.

Anyone can write this. Facts do matter though, especially when it comes to a diagnosis of disease, disability and illness. Not forgetting liss of trust and monies outstanding.

@PandoraSocks

Edited

By the way this ISN'T a quote. Just made up the first paragraph.

Bruisername · 13/07/2025 15:39

SmellsLikeTippex · 13/07/2025 15:37

I think her doubts were because she wanted him to sell the farm, because it was an obsession with him (this ‘dream of returning to the land’), and he seems to have had unsatisfactory previous tenants. RW quotes his wife, when she meets her, saying she’d been furious when he first said he’d offered it to the Walkers because the farm had been ‘a huge financial and emotional black hole’ for him. The whole family had been planning to move there from London before his wife got breast cancer, and by the time she’d recovered, his ‘focus had moved on’ and the children were too settled in their London schools, plus his wife just didn’t want to go and live out his dream. She just wants him to sell it and stop having sleepless nights about it.

Interestingly, Raynor gives ‘Rachel’, the wife, a cancer survivor, a bit of side eye as she describes her in TWS, as this powerful figure who might pull the plug on them, and who gives her ‘a hug that held a casual, assured resilience’:

I watched Rachel as she looked across the land, a woman who had the power to end a dream or fan the flame

She’s really good at biting the hand that feeds them, or if not exactly biting, snarling slightly at it .😀

You’re assuming any of what she wrote is true.

would love to hear the wife’s version

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 15:41

FlyAgaricc · 13/07/2025 15:23

It wouldn't have been hard for Penguin to do some basic fact checking. All they had to do was ask Sally for proof of the diagnosis and proof of the financial dispute. How long would that take? They are a massive publisher who is trusted by the public. I think they should share some of the responsibility. They can't just publish anything that anyone says. Especially medical stuff

Exactly. No one's expecting them to carry out investigations into everything Walker says. But something simple and really quite basic such as letters from his consultants is very reasonable.

OpenThatWindow · 13/07/2025 15:42

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 15:38

Yes, I think the letters confirm he's ill. From something that was once thought to be mild CBD, but since 2019, has had at least one consultant think it could be something else.

It behoves the medical profession to explore that because it could help someone else in the future who presents similarly.

To me the letters repeat the symptoms Tim says he has. There's no letter that says "I diagnose XYZ" but more "as per his diagnosis".

But no actual evidence of degenerative physicality?

And wasn't it reported by them that a scan gave him the all clear?

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