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Thread 6: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

1000 replies

DisappointedReader · 12/07/2025 23:41

The Observer The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

Second article in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-whats-in-the-book-and-what-the-observer-has-found

Third item in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-the-truth-behind-the-blockbuster-book-video

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Thread 2 Thread 2. To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5369425-thread-3-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5370609-thread-4-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 5 Thread 5: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement Raynor Winn

NB Please be careful when it comes to naming or implicating people who aren't in the public eye or have no connection to the story, especially where details are unclear or still emerging i.e. DON'T DO IT.

Keep on the path. No saltiness. Thank you.

New posters welcome. It would be helpful to read at least the three Observer articles before posting.

The real Salt Path: what’s in the book, and what The Obse...

The real Salt Path: what’s in the book, and what The Obse...

Raynor and Moth Winn’s redemptive journey from penury and homelessness led to a bestselling book. The truth behind it is very different

https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-whats-in-the-book-and-what-the-observer-has-found

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
PandoraSocks · 13/07/2025 11:53

PrincessLeia94 · 13/07/2025 10:24

I’ve seen and it’s even more embarrassing than the first one! It acknowledges the CBD diagnosis but then implies that because the disease is “indolent” then it’s as if it never happened (so basically, huge bit of backpedaling there).

No acknowledgement of any of the other of the author’s rebuttals, they just focus on telling people what an awful person she is. Now, people are allowed to believe what they like, but I for one find it odd that they have not properly addressed any of the defence that the author posted.

But then, this is just Observer acting like the many other “gutter press” newspapers out there. They publish a claim, with no evidence, which is then found to be untrue. Instead of apologising, they double down and make up more nonsense because they know some people are gullible enough to believe anything. I wouldn’t waste my breath of this silly story, there are far worse things going on in the world!

No acknowledgement of any of the other of the author’s rebuttals

Fact and fiction: Raynor Winn won’t talk to us. But here... share.google/gzBmgPszPrFGHpt2A

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 11:55

Let's not engage!

And let's not talk about any redactions or mention any family members by name who aren't connected with this.

@DisappointedReader has done a great job keeping us on the right path so far.

Aspanielstolemysanity · 13/07/2025 11:56

@PrincessLeia94 I feel like we might be inhabiting different universes. What you are reading in the Observer and what I am reading are entirely different

Have you read this rather excellent deconstruction of Sally Walker's statement

It's very helpful technique for peeling away manipulative language and reading what is really being said. I have found it very helpful in my personal life too (Mr Ex was a skillful manipulator and could work on me till I took believed the grass was blue and the moon was made of cheese, till we split and I was deconstructing what he had written rather than listening to what he was saying )

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/CX6muWGO-rI?feature=shared

Aspanielstolemysanity · 13/07/2025 11:58

Bruisername · 13/07/2025 11:53

Ha - we’re back and that post was from ages ago

i I think it’s probably best not to engage!

Yeah fair point!

Aspanielstolemysanity · 13/07/2025 11:59

I'm just watching the Rick Stein thing and I just keep thinking there must have been so many long standing Cider Farmers they could have interviewed but they plumped for a couple of "names" instead.

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 12:00

Just to repeat what I said on the interim thread, it was really lucky that when Tim Walker decided to reveal to Bill that there was another person there to hear it.

Whilst they may have been thinking they had a bigger audience, it's backfired because now there's someone who can verify that Tim did say all of this about not lasting till Christmas.

They potentially needed an excuse as to why they weren't doing anything on the farm.

SmellsLikeTippex · 13/07/2025 12:02

CoasttoCoast84 · 13/07/2025 10:04

So shocking what’s revealed today about the cider farm as that’s relatively ‘recent’ compared to life ‘before’ the salt path - if there was any sense of transformation/making amends/starting a new chapter etc.

It’s also stark that not ONE friend/relative/colleague/person seems to have come forth in defence to say they’re such lovely people? You would have thought many would speak up, based on the narrative up until last Sunday…

My sense is that they have never, as a couple, been good at sticking to things and grafting (there’s a grafter/grifter joke in there somewhere), and there’s a pattern of dropping out, quitting jobs, doing flits etc. Of which underperforming on the cider farm and disappearing is just one more instance.

I can’t remember what the source was now, but someone quoted several threads back an account by (possibly) some former colleague of Moth’s of him suddenly quitting a job (maybe the NT head gardener job?) at no notice, and leaving the area suddenly with some story about one of his young children getting out of the garden of their home and almost being hit by a car?

The books always present Moth as incredibly hardworking, willing, skilled, and knowledgeable about the natural world (the degree he does when they were living in Polruan has just given him a formal qualification in something he’s always been expert in, and even when purportedly very ill and losing his memory to the point where he sometimes drives the wrong way to campus, he still goes to all classes and studies), plus he’s also a skilled ‘master plasterer’ and farmer, with considerable experience in restoring old properties. (TWS describes them as restoring a cottage together when very young, before they married, but it’s not clear if they ever lived in it.)

Raynor by her own account has had a spotty employment history (though she specifically says in both TSP and TWS that this is because for the 20 years before they started the SWCP walk, she’d been self-employed on their own farm, neatly deleting her job at the Hemings estate agency and the Abersoch hotel job, if it ever existed), so why would anyone employ her with no qualifications or references? Which is clearly unfair in her mind, but also a useful excuse for not working..

They’re both presented as endlessly hardworking. Moth renovates Polly’s outbuilding from a barely habitable wreck to a point where it’s lettable while very ill and barely able to use his arms, while Raynor works hard with the sheepshearers. There’s always a huge emphasis on the loss of their farm/home, because they ‘restored it with our own hands’ and brought the land back into productivity. Even just before the bailiffs arrive Raynor is still ‘like a true farmer’ concerned about moles in their field.

However, it’s not clear to me whether they were ever actually farmers in any real sense, or how much land they owned in Wales. Does the property listing when it was up for sale say? TSP only refers to buying four sheep (the last of whom is Smotyn the ancient ewe whose grave they selflessly dig jist before the bailiffs show up), all dead and their offspring sold by the time of the repossession, and to keeping chickens. Was it just a token ‘farm’ with a few sheep and hens so they could call their barn a ‘farm stay’?

Moth in TWS starts reciting vague ‘agricultural stats’ and says he doesn’t want to buy their own livestock for the cider farm, only to rewild it and run the cider operation, because he doesn’t want to be tied to it 24/7. He wants to attend R’s book events and do another walk. Again, RW paints a picture of an ill man devotedly strimming and clearing rubbish, and that his work yields miraculous results very fast. ‘Sam’ (Bill Cole) weeps with gratitude when he first sees the restored land.

But RV never mentions working on the land herself, says Moth’s working days are only four hours long because he’s so ill, and her account of the first apple harvest is very weird. They don’t seem to have a plan for how to pick the apples. A local poster on the last thread says volunteers always help out on ‘Apple Day’, but RV writes a gloomy scene about her and Moth wandering around the orchard after a storm, looking at the bruised windfalls and saying ‘We can’t pick them all’ and ‘This will all go to waste’, and never explains why volunteers show up to help, apparently without them knowing this is usual. There’s a vague reference to the barn being filled with fruit and the cider press working again, but it’s not clear who is working it.

I suppose what I’m saying is that there’s a long pattern of doing a half-assed job and then disappearing.

Daisythepussycat · 13/07/2025 12:03

To the people who were saying in Thread 5 that they thought AGA and Rayburn were the same company - they are now! AGA took Rayburn over some years ago, and so the eBay sellers and people calling them AGARayburns are technically correct. In fact I have just checked, and according to wiki they were always made by the same company, with Rayburn being manufactured in a separate factory. We have had two AGAs, and I would never have another - the big problem with them (or at least our older ones, but I think they are the same now) is that they can't run radiators. You therefore end up with one superheated room in the house and the rest of the house absolutely freezing, plus hot water so hot that it virtually comes out of the taps as steam. In our last house in the UK (a Devon longhouse) we had an AGA at one end of it, and also central heating. But the AGA cost so much to run (IIRC it used about 15 gallons of heating oil a week) that we couldn't afford to run the heating too, and so the rest of the house was so cold that we ended up with a choice of sitting shivering in the sitting room and wearing fingerless gloves, or spending our entire lives squatting in the kitchen. I once asked the service engineer if there was anything I could do about the insanely hot water, because they run at a constant temp and can't be turned down (or, again, at least ours couldn't), and I was worried it might boil our toddler to death (if you didn't run the cold before the hot, into the washbasin or bath, it was insanely hot). 'Oh yes', he replied, 'have lots of baths, and run the surplus down the drain - it makes about 90 gallons a day'. That nearly took my breath away - he was seriously suggesting that we should pay for 15 gallons of heating oil to heat 90 gallons of water a day, sit in a freezing cold house because we couldn't afford to heat it as well, and pour the remainder of 90 gallons of water down the drain!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGARangemasterGroup

Aspanielstolemysanity · 13/07/2025 12:03

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 12:00

Just to repeat what I said on the interim thread, it was really lucky that when Tim Walker decided to reveal to Bill that there was another person there to hear it.

Whilst they may have been thinking they had a bigger audience, it's backfired because now there's someone who can verify that Tim did say all of this about not lasting till Christmas.

They potentially needed an excuse as to why they weren't doing anything on the farm.

That's very true.
It's so confusing why that happened

I've missed whether the Walkers were given a chance to comment on the story about telling Bill they were dying? I am curious what their justification was

Woolftown · 13/07/2025 12:06

Aspanielstolemysanity · 13/07/2025 12:03

That's very true.
It's so confusing why that happened

I've missed whether the Walkers were given a chance to comment on the story about telling Bill they were dying? I am curious what their justification was

From the Observer, it looks as though they did:

In a statement, Winn re stated the position published on her website : “I have never sought to offer medical advice in my books or suggest that walking might be some sort of miracle cure for CB S [corticobasal syndrome], I am simply charting Moth’s own personal journey and battle with his illness, and what has helped him.”
Winn reiterates that she has charted Moth’s condition “with such a level of honesty”.

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 12:07

I can’t remember what the source was now, but someone quoted several threads back an account by (possibly) some former colleague of Moth’s of him suddenly quitting a job (maybe the NT head gardener job?) at no notice, and leaving the area suddenly with some story about one of his young children getting out of the garden of their home and almost being hit by a car?

That was when they lived in Burton-upon-Trent.

There was an article about the NT place he worked at Plas yn Rhiw which interviewed him and he said that when his son ran out into the street, he realised that they needed and wanted to be somewhere rural to bring up their kids.

So they immediately left their jobs and rented a place in somewhere beginning with the letter C, before eventually buying the house in Pwlleli.

He started off as a volunteer at the NT property, then when the gardener retired he was taken on.

Aspanielstolemysanity · 13/07/2025 12:08

Our little holding bay thread has gone now so just thought I would share the private eye picture here

Thread 6: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?
PrettyDamnCosmic · 13/07/2025 12:08

Daisythepussycat · 13/07/2025 12:03

To the people who were saying in Thread 5 that they thought AGA and Rayburn were the same company - they are now! AGA took Rayburn over some years ago, and so the eBay sellers and people calling them AGARayburns are technically correct. In fact I have just checked, and according to wiki they were always made by the same company, with Rayburn being manufactured in a separate factory. We have had two AGAs, and I would never have another - the big problem with them (or at least our older ones, but I think they are the same now) is that they can't run radiators. You therefore end up with one superheated room in the house and the rest of the house absolutely freezing, plus hot water so hot that it virtually comes out of the taps as steam. In our last house in the UK (a Devon longhouse) we had an AGA at one end of it, and also central heating. But the AGA cost so much to run (IIRC it used about 15 gallons of heating oil a week) that we couldn't afford to run the heating too, and so the rest of the house was so cold that we ended up with a choice of sitting shivering in the sitting room and wearing fingerless gloves, or spending our entire lives squatting in the kitchen. I once asked the service engineer if there was anything I could do about the insanely hot water, because they run at a constant temp and can't be turned down (or, again, at least ours couldn't), and I was worried it might boil our toddler to death (if you didn't run the cold before the hot, into the washbasin or bath, it was insanely hot). 'Oh yes', he replied, 'have lots of baths, and run the surplus down the drain - it makes about 90 gallons a day'. That nearly took my breath away - he was seriously suggesting that we should pay for 15 gallons of heating oil to heat 90 gallons of water a day, sit in a freezing cold house because we couldn't afford to heat it as well, and pour the remainder of 90 gallons of water down the drain!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGARangemasterGroup

Edited

We had an oil-fired Aga in a previous house installed by the previous owners. The 'always on' oven is like keeping the car on the drive with the engine running just on the off chance that you will want to pop down the shops.

Aspanielstolemysanity · 13/07/2025 12:10

Woolftown · 13/07/2025 12:06

From the Observer, it looks as though they did:

In a statement, Winn re stated the position published on her website : “I have never sought to offer medical advice in my books or suggest that walking might be some sort of miracle cure for CB S [corticobasal syndrome], I am simply charting Moth’s own personal journey and battle with his illness, and what has helped him.”
Winn reiterates that she has charted Moth’s condition “with such a level of honesty”.

Ah. That hardly explains telling someone who was housing him for nominal rent that he is months away from dying! No wonder I thought I had missed the response.

OpenThatWindow · 13/07/2025 12:11

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 12:00

Just to repeat what I said on the interim thread, it was really lucky that when Tim Walker decided to reveal to Bill that there was another person there to hear it.

Whilst they may have been thinking they had a bigger audience, it's backfired because now there's someone who can verify that Tim did say all of this about not lasting till Christmas.

They potentially needed an excuse as to why they weren't doing anything on the farm.

Giving them a very generous benefit of doubt, I wonder of they had intentions of actually helping at the cider farm, but we're just too unskilled/lazy to actually do it.

Then when time was getting on, 'Moth' was conveniently more ill, with a baffling disease progression that was miraculous, unique and unheard of...

Daisythepussycat · 13/07/2025 12:12

PrettyDamnCosmic · 13/07/2025 12:08

We had an oil-fired Aga in a previous house installed by the previous owners. The 'always on' oven is like keeping the car on the drive with the engine running just on the off chance that you will want to pop down the shops.

Exactly - ours was a previous owner job too (I assume from the days when oil was cheap and 'the thing to do'). I worked at home writing schoolbooks (with my fingerless gloves on, because my office was at the opposite end of the house from the AGA), and I used to drive about 50 miles a week, max (Exeter and back twice). So the car used about a gallon a week and the house used (wasted!) 15 gallons. I once dropped the kids off at school on the way into Exeter to do the shopping, and I got an earful from another parent for driving 'to' the school (even though I was just passing), because it was only about a quarter of a mile away. But she didn't seem to worry about the 15 gallons we were wasting every week!

Rallentanda · 13/07/2025 12:13

PrincessLeia94 · 13/07/2025 10:24

I’ve seen and it’s even more embarrassing than the first one! It acknowledges the CBD diagnosis but then implies that because the disease is “indolent” then it’s as if it never happened (so basically, huge bit of backpedaling there).

No acknowledgement of any of the other of the author’s rebuttals, they just focus on telling people what an awful person she is. Now, people are allowed to believe what they like, but I for one find it odd that they have not properly addressed any of the defence that the author posted.

But then, this is just Observer acting like the many other “gutter press” newspapers out there. They publish a claim, with no evidence, which is then found to be untrue. Instead of apologising, they double down and make up more nonsense because they know some people are gullible enough to believe anything. I wouldn’t waste my breath of this silly story, there are far worse things going on in the world!

Sorry, nothing to see here. lol

Aspanielstolemysanity · 13/07/2025 12:14

OpenThatWindow · 13/07/2025 12:11

Giving them a very generous benefit of doubt, I wonder of they had intentions of actually helping at the cider farm, but we're just too unskilled/lazy to actually do it.

Then when time was getting on, 'Moth' was conveniently more ill, with a baffling disease progression that was miraculous, unique and unheard of...

I think that probably is the case. I do get the impression they genuinely love nature and the natural world and way of life and I think thats why there's a strand of truth that runs through the books and books people in, particularly people who live in urban areas and want to believe a certain presentation of rural life (i.e. that rural inhabitants could be naively sucked into a foolish investment )

Rallentanda · 13/07/2025 12:17

Has anyone seen anything about the hotel in Abersoch, from where Sally lost her job? It probably wasn't true. Hope CH and team are able to go that far back.

SmellsLikeTippex · 13/07/2025 12:17

Sorry, my post turned into a mad, long essay. My point (as well as the fact that they seem to have form for underperforming, getting themselves into a tight spot, telling a tall tale, and then disappearing) is that — is it possible that they had nowhere near the experience in farming that was implied in TSP?

Because it seems pretty clear from the Bill Cole article (which is frustratingly vague on the exact terms of the contract, though, maybe understandably) that he certainly expected them to run the farm as a going concern and make money.

That he didn’t just offer them the farmhouse as a refuge out of the goodness of his heart because he was touched by TSP. He thought he was hiring experienced farmers with a feel for ‘restorative agriculture’, not half-hearted hobby farmers who didn’t have the skills and experience to achieve what he expected, and one of whom seems to have been primarily concerned with her writing career at that point.

Choux · 13/07/2025 12:17

Aspanielstolemysanity · 13/07/2025 12:08

Our little holding bay thread has gone now so just thought I would share the private eye picture here

Thank God I didn’t find the holding bay thread - I did look - as I actually managed to get 90 mins of chores and admin done!

Has anything been deleted from this thread? Is there anything for us to learn about what not to post in order to not be hidden again?

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 12:20

I've reread the rebuttal of the rebuttal by Chloe H, and it's thorough.

I think she's addressed the letters very well. Not saying that it's weird the first is from 2015 not 2013, but just mentioning it quite matter of factly, and also mentions the 2019 letter that says the consultant queried if Tim Walker actually had the disease. It also references Walker's claim that she never suggested walking was a miracle cure.

https://observer.co.uk/culture/books/article/fact-and-fiction-raynor-winn-wont-talk-to-us-but-heres-what-she-said-about-our-story

Fact and fiction: Raynor Winn won’t talk to us. But here...

Fact and fiction: Raynor Winn won’t talk to us. But here...

After our exposé of the inaccuracies behind a couple’s walk to salvation, their defence raises new questions

https://observer.co.uk/culture/books/article/fact-and-fiction-raynor-winn-wont-talk-to-us-but-heres-what-she-said-about-our-story

FurryHappyKittens · 13/07/2025 12:21

Choux · 13/07/2025 12:17

Thank God I didn’t find the holding bay thread - I did look - as I actually managed to get 90 mins of chores and admin done!

Has anything been deleted from this thread? Is there anything for us to learn about what not to post in order to not be hidden again?

Yes there's a post mentioning unredacting the letters. An indication for us not to mention that again.

AgitatedGoose · 13/07/2025 12:23

I’ve been checking Gigspanner’s instagram page. Sorry I can’t post a link. On 16/7/23 RW and MW are shown outside what looks like a converted chapel after hosting the band for a couple of days to write music and prose. R and M are sheltering under an umbrella holding their dog and there’s a land-rover and VW camper parked on the driveway.

Bruisername · 13/07/2025 12:24

I feel any mention of a dog should be accompanied by a photo

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