Muslim women who dress modestly...

[TreatTreat]

If you're at the beach and you want to paddle in the sea, are you able to roll up your trousers? Genuinely wondering as I saw a muslim family on the beach today having great fun. The kids were paddling in the sea. The women weren't but this question sprung in my head.

Muslim women see other women in safe spaces…. They are 100% going to judge each other.
They wear clothes underneath …. It can be tight jeans, sexy top … their friends CAN see them.

yep

We still do not feel the same amount of pressure; it's a lot less. I say this as someone who had to worry about my figure and whether my breasts looked good in a strapless bikini top when going to the beach a decade ago.

But it's sad. One of the great things about getting older is stopping giving a shit what anyone thinks and losing that self consciousness as well as the vain belief that other people are looking at you.

Wear that bikini

Firstly, black abayas / burkas / niqabs are not how observant Muslim women everywhere would dress - this is more associated with Gulf States like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (where to be fair lots of men would also wear a long loose robe over their regular clothes and a head cover). That style of dress is not common in middle class communities in Egypt/Lebanon for example and is generally seen as a bit excessive.
This is bang on. The spread of the all black, full length, face covering kit across the world, including the UK, is fairly recent. 30 years ago Muslim women wore what was the traditional dress in whichever country they came from.
That’s why, growing up, the Muslim girls I knew in the uk wore salwar kameez but no head covering, as they would have in Pakistan. Their mothers wore a light, pretty, draped headscarf.
It’s pretty disingenuous for anyone to claim that a niquab or a burka is a neutral free choice, or that it is comfy. It’s a trend. It can also be deeply fetished, in a sort of “ look how submissive I am/ my woman is”.
When a UK Muslim dresses as a Saudi it’s pretty much cosplay, because it’s really never been a thing here ( or most countries). It must be unbearable on a hot beach.

It is sad, I agree with you and as mentioned in a previous post it's all mainly due to patriarchy.

Getting older, I feel more insecure unfortunately; all these creams and procedures aimed at me, it's not helping!

Women are used as commodities by the industry to sell clothes, expensive and unnecessary procedures, we are also sexualised so much in the media.

Wearing a headscarf saves me from some of it and I feel good.

In an ideal world, where men are respectfull of women and women are not made to be eachother s enemy/ competition it wouldn't be this way but I don't think we'll ever get to that state...

How is it related to patriarchy?

I don't think it is sad if people are following what they want to do.

Competitive swimmers and gymnasts are increasingly wanting to wear less revealing suits and I don't think it is related to feeling vain or self conscious!

Men dominate everything; using women's bodies to sell perfume for example - we are sexualised.

A female air hostess is required to wear makeup and heels otherwise she is looked down on and seen as unprofessional - why does the same not apply to men; surely they also have bad skin, bags under their eyes and fine lines which they can cover up with makeup?

Men victim blaming rape victims and questioning what she was wearing, how much alcohol she had despite the fact she was raped and said no.

There are so many more examples, those are just a few.

As a Muslim revert,who wears hijab. I normally wear a tunic with trpusers/jeans or a maxi skirt and blouse or a maxindress.

Everyone has their own idea of modesty and no one is wrong or right.

As women maybe we should just respect how others choose to dress and leave judgement at home.

I have daughters. They aren't expected to wear anything. It will be their own choice
I ahve friends who's daughters who wear hijab as they want to be like mummy.

Some people come over from hot countries so they don't feel our heat as its not as hot as where they have just come from.

Women reallt are their own worst enemy. I have never been questioned by a man on how I dress but I have by many many women. Sad.

I think trend is a good way to describe it - I think it can also be a signifier of wealth and status: our family is so wealthy the women never have to go out, so we are able to require this level of observance.

We are not Arabs, but the abaya is my preferred way to cover, especially in hot weather.
It's wide and floaty and looks nice, no need to faff about matching tunic and trousers which are often made of heavier materials.
Under the abaya can have a pair of shorts and a vest, or skinny jeans, or pajamas, whatever I like.
The niqab is regarded in here to be for the husbands pleasure... It is in my experience a religious choice rather than cultural, the ones I know that wear it have a good knowledge of Islam and strive to follow it as much as they can
I personally always wanted to wear it but my husband felt it wouldn't be safe especially when out with young kids unfortunately so he asked me not to, I see his point and so do not wear it for mine and his peace of mind. It is sad but islamophobia is rising.

Also the niqab doesn't stop you from working so not sure why you all discussing that it is a status symbol..
By the way Muslim women often are SAHM because the Muslim man has a duty to provide, both genders have their duties.

Maybe men aren’t questioning you because you’re dressing how they want you to.

Given that 50% of Muslims in the UK live in poverty, how well do you think that’s going?

It's not Islamophobia. It's wholly culturally inappropriate to wear the niqab in the UK.

The niqab is regarded in here to be for the husbands pleasure

what does this mean out of curiosity?

Yes, I wondered that too.

I think she means preference.

Yes, sorry someone in a comment said that the niqab was worn for the husband, this is not the case in my experience

You don't think that it's islamophobia having to decide how to dress for fear of attacks?

So which is it, Muslim dress is a sign of being rich or are Muslim poor?
I would hazard a guess that the 50% poverty number comes from many different factors, many Muslims are refugees(not allowed to work) for example.
I doubt the niqab is a reason for poverty.
I was saying that both genders have duties and rights, rather than men have all the rights and poor oppressed women have to be pitied.
But this is the way any thread that mentions Islam goes on mumsnet anyway...

As in you mean it’s not worn for the husband, is worn for religious reasons?

I’m talking about your statement regarding Muslim women being SAHMs with their husbands “providing”.

Muslims aren’t any more immune to the cost of living crisis than the rest of us.

True freedom is having the law on your side, which you have. People can still be curious/judge/be concerned. Because no matter how you dress it up religion is a way to keep women down and abuse them.

Plus as per usual on mumsnet a poster tries to downplay something because there are far more worse things to concern ourselves with. It still concerns us but needs its own thread.

Maybe you should look outside your own bubble and stop assuming everyone is in your privileged position.