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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Muslim women who dress modestly...

596 replies

TreatTreat · 12/07/2025 18:49

If you're at the beach and you want to paddle in the sea, are you able to roll up your trousers? Genuinely wondering as I saw a muslim family on the beach today having great fun. The kids were paddling in the sea. The women weren't but this question sprung in my head.

OP posts:
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Ddakji · 13/07/2025 10:54

SonK · 13/07/2025 09:44

Well my man is MY man and I am his woman, yes that is how I say it if I want to.

Is that all you could pick out from my post, you sound very smart and open-minded

Others have pointed out all the other issues with what you’ve posted so I didn’t see any point in rehashing any of those.

Oasisafan · 13/07/2025 10:55

Sherr33 · 13/07/2025 09:20

There’s a common misconception — usually shaped by the media — that Muslim women are oppressed because they cover up. But for many of us, wearing a hijab or dressing modestly is an empowered, conscious choice. It's about spiritual identity, self-respect, and connection to faith — not about being controlled.

Ironically, in societies that claim to value freedom, a Muslim woman’s choice to dress modestly is sometimes criticized — even though that very choice is a form of autonomy. True freedom is being able to choose how to present ourselves without being judged or pressured to conform to someone else's standard.

and last note, people need to separate what some oppressive governments or cultures do in the name of religion from what the religion actually teaches. Islam, at its core, values dignity, free will, and intention. And many Muslim women across the world speak out strongly — and proudly — about why they choose to cover. I mean we dont all need to be on onlyfans to be #feminist and #empoweringwomen. I dont understand why its such an issue for quite a lot of people on how Muslim women dress! Nobody is forcing you to wear it so why DOES it actually bother people? I pity those who need to restort to bending over for 1001+ men for ££, fame and attention and then screaming mental health issues?
Pointing at Iran and Afghanistan to blame Islam for being oppresive when in actual fact its culture, but are you looking at your own country? Rising crime, broken families, loneliness, exploitation — every society has issues. Let’s be honest about that before using other countries to bash an entire religion. Think how women dress in the UK is the least of our worries

Edited

It’s not just about how women dress though, it’s in conjunction with how they are treated overall and viewed in society in places like Afghanistan etc… That’s the concern.

It’s one thing some women actually choosing to cover up, as is their prerogative especially in the western world. As you point out, you chose to do that genuinely and that’s fair enough, but in some countries the oppression of women is so severe that it’s very concerning. Let’s not pretend they have free will and choice and the same freedoms as men.

draggedtoakpopconcert · 13/07/2025 11:10

The whole world is insane really. At one extreme you have billions of girls and women consumed with having beach-perfect bodies - lifetimes of stressing about cellulite, removing all body hair and maybe even having cosmetic surgery (bum lifts, liposuction, breast implants). At the other extreme. Women are covered from head to toe in 40 degree heat. Who is more oppressed is a matter of perspective. I would argue both.

WilfredsPies · 13/07/2025 11:17

fourquenelles · 13/07/2025 09:32

In a previous life I worked there (both the Republic of Srpska and BiH) helping the governments rebuild their civil services. The women I worked with were not second class citizens by any stretch of the imagination, some heading up departments. Of course it's not perfect and unfortunately women all over the world and from all religions still suffer from what is reported by your department of state, not least the USA and the UK.

It’s not my department of State. I’m British. The UK doesn’t do an equivalent report or I would have cited that.

And I agree that there are women in some positions of power there, especially in the judiciary. It’s certainly better for women there than in many countries. But the country was suggested as one that doesn’t oppress women and that’s simply not true. It’s still a patriarchal society where women are not considered equal to men and oppression is a regular thing. I’m not saying that it’s down to religion rather than culture or that the UK is much better. But women there do not have an easy time of it and that’s simply due to their sex.

‘Although no laws limited the participation of women or members of minority groups in the political process, the country’s patriarchal culture tended to restrict their participation in political affairs. While the law required at least 40 percent of a political party’s candidates be women, women held only 21 percent of delegate seats in the House of Representatives and the House of Peoples in the state-level parliament’

The failure of police to treat spousal rape as a serious offense inhibited the effective enforcement of the law. Women survivors of rape did not have regular access to free social support or assistance as mandated by the law, and continued to encounter prejudice, stigma, and discrimination in their communities and from representatives of public institutions.

While laws in both entities empowered authorities to remove the perpetrator of domestic violence from the home, officials rarely did so.

In November 2022 the Group of Independent Experts on Action against Violence against Women and Domestic Violence of the Council of Europe (GREVIO) published its first report assessing the measures national authorities had taken to implement the Council of Europe’s Convention on Preventing and Combating Violence against Women and Domestic Violence. The report highlighted positive legal and policy measures BiH authorities introduced to combat violence against women and domestic violence, and concluded all necessary policies were in place. The report criticized authorities, however, arguing all strategies and activities were focused on domestic violence and failed to address other forms of violence against women, including rape and sexual violence, sexual harassment, female genital mutilation, forced marriage, forced abortion, forced sterilization, and stalking. GREVIO noted no clear referral mechanism for survivors of sexual violence and stated trauma care and psychological counselling were insufficient.

NGOs reported authorities often returned offenders to their homes less than 24 hours after a violent event, reportedly concerned regarding where the perpetrator would live. In the two entities, authorities prosecuted domestic violence as a felony, while in Brcko District, it could be reported as a felony or a misdemeanor. Even when domestic violence resulted in prosecution and conviction, offenders were often given suspended sentences, including repeat offenders. To avoid prolonged court proceedings, judges both in the Federation and the RS rarely applied domestic violence law but instead applied other laws with lesser penalties. NGOs highlighted that in more than 80 percent of cases, judges imposed suspended sentences. GREVIO also warned that judges often issued lenient sentences in cases of domestic violence and other forms of violence against women.

The Gender Equality Agency reported one of every two girls and women older than age 15 experienced some type of domestic violence (psychological, economic, or physical) and that the problem was underreported because most survivors did not trust the support system (police, social welfare centers, or the judiciary). According to 2020 OSCE data (the most recent data available), 48 percent of girls and women older than 15 suffered some form of gender-based violence, including harassment. The same research showed 84 percent of women who suffered violence did not report it to police because they considered the violence not to be severe enough or because they believed it to be a “family matter.”

On August 11, a man in Gradacac live-streamed killing his former spouse and two other persons. On August 1, a hotel owner in Jablanica assaulted a woman employee, causing serious injuries after she requested payment of her salary.

As evaluated by the Gender Equality Agency in the 2018-2022 Gender Action Plan, women in the country faced multiple obstacles in the labor market, such as longer waiting periods than men for their first jobs, unequal possibility for promotion, and long employment disruptions due to maternity leave or elder care problems. Most but not all discrimination against women occurred in processing industries and trade. Middle-aged women (40 to 55) reported challenges successfully reentering the labor market due to market shifts and discontinuation of some types of work. NGOs also reported that during hiring interviews, potential employers routinely asked women if they were planning to have a family soon, sometimes illegally requesting women sign a written agreement stipulating they did not plan to become pregnant within three years.
Federation and RS labor laws stipulated an employer could not terminate a full-time employee due to pregnancy or use of maternity leave. The law also allowed for half-time work after the expiration of maternity leave; half-time work until a dependent child was three years of age (if a competent health institution determined the child required enhanced care); and paid time for breastfeeding. Implementation was inconsistent, and women were often denied these rights. Employers continued to terminate pregnant women and new mothers despite the existence of protections. The law did not protect part-time or temporary workers for being terminated due to pregnancy. Some women exposed to pressure, discrimination, or denial of their rights during maternity leave either did not report the denials or filed anonymous complaints.

SonK · 13/07/2025 11:17

Tandora · 13/07/2025 10:49

I totally agree there are men like this from all cultures/ nationalities/ religions. But it doesn’t follow that it is obvious or natural that the majority of men have opinions about what their partners wear or how “revealing” it is.

Surely this concern where it exists in men is a form of misogyny/ control? Rooted in the idea that women are possessions etc.

Im a woman and its never occurred to me for one second to consider or care whether my male partner was dressed in a “revealing” manner or not. Why would it be an issue the other way around if not for patriarchy?

Edited

You are right about everything; yet it is a man's world we are living in.

Think of it this way; a woman covers up in a niqab fully covered and goes on a walk with her partner - he loves the attention because his partner is only for his eyes in his mind and the minds of other men who think alike they don't even get a glimpse of her.

And then you have a woman dressed in a sexy revealing dress next to her partner who is wearing a suit not revealing much skin - the woman's beauty ultimately defines her and her partner feels good showing her off to the world and other men as eye candy as he power walks through and the lady is strutting along in sexy but uncomfortable high heels.

To me, both are oppressed as the lady who is in a niqab feels pressure to please her husband and the other lady is under pressure to dress sexy and be in competition with other women because she is also objectified and viewed as 'disposable' for the younger, prettier lady.

It is very sad, but I think the problem is men; we need to teach men from an early age that women are so much more than how they dress or how they look; we are not meat that needs to be covered up because they have a problem averting their gaze or eye candy whereby we always have to look sexy for their attention.

We should wear whatever we want because we want to - of course, it should be appropriate where necessary, for instance it would be utterly ridiculous for a niqab wearing lady to apply to be a lifeguard and similarly for a lady in fetish wear to want to work in teaching dressed like that.

As for your last point, I wouldn't be happy with my husband wearing those thigh shorts trending amongst men because his boxers would peak through and I simply don't like that look on him.

Would I care what other men wear? Absolutely not

Oasisafan · 13/07/2025 11:20

draggedtoakpopconcert · 13/07/2025 11:10

The whole world is insane really. At one extreme you have billions of girls and women consumed with having beach-perfect bodies - lifetimes of stressing about cellulite, removing all body hair and maybe even having cosmetic surgery (bum lifts, liposuction, breast implants). At the other extreme. Women are covered from head to toe in 40 degree heat. Who is more oppressed is a matter of perspective. I would argue both.

Nailed it 👏

draggedtoakpopconcert · 13/07/2025 11:22

I have 2 teenage daughters and the trend seems to be wearing denim skirts that barely cover their bums, with cropped tops and trainers. Is this fashion actually liberating? When I was a teen, we used to wear stiletto heels with pretty much everything - not just for going out, just general day wear. You could well imagine a woman in some iteration of Islamic dress, looking at Western women, tottering around in ridiculous footwear or conforming to the fashion of having your figure and as much skin on display as much as possible as oppressed.

SonK · 13/07/2025 11:29

draggedtoakpopconcert · 13/07/2025 11:22

I have 2 teenage daughters and the trend seems to be wearing denim skirts that barely cover their bums, with cropped tops and trainers. Is this fashion actually liberating? When I was a teen, we used to wear stiletto heels with pretty much everything - not just for going out, just general day wear. You could well imagine a woman in some iteration of Islamic dress, looking at Western women, tottering around in ridiculous footwear or conforming to the fashion of having your figure and as much skin on display as much as possible as oppressed.

It may not be liberating per se as it is something perpetuated by men for their own gaze, however as long as it is their choice and they feel comfortable in it, I don't see the issue!

In my teen years I wore ridiculously short mink skirts and I felt good in it at the time. No regrets.

Now I have decided to dress modestly and wear a headscarf, I wouldn't feel liberated in such an outfit and prefer my current style of dress.

It's all about choice, everyone should have that and as women especially that's what we should be fighting for; the choice to truly dress however we want and to be kind and respectful with eachother about it.

Tandora · 13/07/2025 11:31

SonK · 13/07/2025 11:17

You are right about everything; yet it is a man's world we are living in.

Think of it this way; a woman covers up in a niqab fully covered and goes on a walk with her partner - he loves the attention because his partner is only for his eyes in his mind and the minds of other men who think alike they don't even get a glimpse of her.

And then you have a woman dressed in a sexy revealing dress next to her partner who is wearing a suit not revealing much skin - the woman's beauty ultimately defines her and her partner feels good showing her off to the world and other men as eye candy as he power walks through and the lady is strutting along in sexy but uncomfortable high heels.

To me, both are oppressed as the lady who is in a niqab feels pressure to please her husband and the other lady is under pressure to dress sexy and be in competition with other women because she is also objectified and viewed as 'disposable' for the younger, prettier lady.

It is very sad, but I think the problem is men; we need to teach men from an early age that women are so much more than how they dress or how they look; we are not meat that needs to be covered up because they have a problem averting their gaze or eye candy whereby we always have to look sexy for their attention.

We should wear whatever we want because we want to - of course, it should be appropriate where necessary, for instance it would be utterly ridiculous for a niqab wearing lady to apply to be a lifeguard and similarly for a lady in fetish wear to want to work in teaching dressed like that.

As for your last point, I wouldn't be happy with my husband wearing those thigh shorts trending amongst men because his boxers would peak through and I simply don't like that look on him.

Would I care what other men wear? Absolutely not

Totally agree. 🫶🏻

modestsometimes · 13/07/2025 11:46

downwiththatsortof · 13/07/2025 09:42

Yeah as far as I'm concerned men can fuck off telling women what to wear.

And for all the women that choose to wear hijab etc there are millions that have no say in it whatsoever, I dare say the vast majority don't have a say. So, I think it's disingenuous of people to bang on about "my choice" when there are clearly so many without it.

It is in fact a similar situation to non Muslims communities. There are rules and traditions but to the extent they are followed/forced will depend on the family dynamics - where family dynamics are based on love and respect there will be no force.

There will be Muslim women who want to follow family and religious traditions because that is what they want and who they are. There will be Muslim women who don't but are forced to by other people in their family.

There will be some women from western cultures who have freedom and independence and others who are living in a quagmire of domestic abuse without effective help from society. There are 100s of children in the UK who were/are being raped by grooming gangs - so they are not benefitting much from western liberalism. Financial control, emotional abuse control, psych control are all rife in western cultures.

There are educated, independent Muslim women who are not being controlled by men who choose to follow the traditions and rules of their religion - this might seem like an anethema to you, but not everyone has the same values and priorities. For some their priorities and values may be the traditions of their faith and communities, by choice.

DiscoBob · 13/07/2025 11:57

Insertfootnote · 12/07/2025 20:55

Burkinis, hijabs, burkas etc are extreme religious clothing whether you like it or not.

They're pieces of cloth. I would wear burkini by choice and I'm not Muslim.
I'd also wear a headscarf sometimes, the queen used to wear a headscarf.
Many choose to cover their legs even in summer. Is the Queen a religious extremist? Am I?
Or just brown people that choose to wear certain things?

Why should the default be that women strip down to a revealing swimsuit or bikini on the beach? Does that make you incapable of religious extremism, if you are willing to wear a thong?

modestsometimes · 13/07/2025 11:58

Policeofficerpanda · 12/07/2025 23:01

@modestsometimes ah yes that makes complete sense now you’ve explained it.

So we have a group of extremely visibly oppressed Muslim women wearing covered up clothes through no choice of their own (and posters on this thread can’t claim they are choosing it - as they are with other examples given - as these poor women’s oppression is so obvious) and then we also have a completely different group of Muslim women wearing covered up clothes but those women definitely chose to do it themselves with no outside influences at all and the fact that they are all Muslim women is just a total coincidence. Got it.

No, not exactly. The Muslim women who choose to dress in the traditional way are doing so because they want to follow Muslim traditions. So your penultimate sentence is wrong.

In terms of how many women choosing to dress in modest ways and how many are forced, we have no idea.

The Muslim women I know choose how they dress. You get many Muslim women on MN explaining that they choose how they dress. But how many in total, we don't know.

modestsometimes · 13/07/2025 12:02

DiscoBob · 13/07/2025 11:57

They're pieces of cloth. I would wear burkini by choice and I'm not Muslim.
I'd also wear a headscarf sometimes, the queen used to wear a headscarf.
Many choose to cover their legs even in summer. Is the Queen a religious extremist? Am I?
Or just brown people that choose to wear certain things?

Why should the default be that women strip down to a revealing swimsuit or bikini on the beach? Does that make you incapable of religious extremism, if you are willing to wear a thong?

Edited

I agree, and I think something like a burkini, some of which are really attractive, will in the future become the norm amongst women of a certain age in all cultures! Since pregnancy my legs have had blotches which are not at all attractive. Something which shows the figure but covers the blotches would be a good thing for me, for sure. This year I have ordered the Boden scratch vest because my arms are not as they were and I am fed up having my cleavage oggled.

Ddakji · 13/07/2025 12:06

DiscoBob · 13/07/2025 11:57

They're pieces of cloth. I would wear burkini by choice and I'm not Muslim.
I'd also wear a headscarf sometimes, the queen used to wear a headscarf.
Many choose to cover their legs even in summer. Is the Queen a religious extremist? Am I?
Or just brown people that choose to wear certain things?

Why should the default be that women strip down to a revealing swimsuit or bikini on the beach? Does that make you incapable of religious extremism, if you are willing to wear a thong?

Edited

What an astonishingly disengenuous post.

Zellycat · 13/07/2025 12:09

draggedtoakpopconcert · 13/07/2025 11:10

The whole world is insane really. At one extreme you have billions of girls and women consumed with having beach-perfect bodies - lifetimes of stressing about cellulite, removing all body hair and maybe even having cosmetic surgery (bum lifts, liposuction, breast implants). At the other extreme. Women are covered from head to toe in 40 degree heat. Who is more oppressed is a matter of perspective. I would argue both.

Do you think the covered up women don’t have aesthetic treatments? You don’t think they do hair removal? Cosmetic surgery?

They absolutely do!

DiscoBob · 13/07/2025 12:13

Ddakji · 13/07/2025 12:06

What an astonishingly disengenuous post.

Why do you say that?
All the Muslim women I know who wear the Niqab or hijab do it because they want to. Not because they're a 'religious extremist'.

Women of all cultures can and do choose what they wear and how much skin they show.

Of course if anyone is forced into anything, clothing included, that is appalling and abhorrent.

zeddybrek · 13/07/2025 12:16

draggedtoakpopconcert · 13/07/2025 11:10

The whole world is insane really. At one extreme you have billions of girls and women consumed with having beach-perfect bodies - lifetimes of stressing about cellulite, removing all body hair and maybe even having cosmetic surgery (bum lifts, liposuction, breast implants). At the other extreme. Women are covered from head to toe in 40 degree heat. Who is more oppressed is a matter of perspective. I would argue both.

Totally agree and very well put.

Cyclebabble · 13/07/2025 12:17

I was born and brought up in Malaysia, a majority Muslim country, though my family is Indian. Not really too much of a problem TBH. If just women then you would paddle pretty much as in the UK. If the beach is crowded then you have very specific swimming costumes which preserve modesty. (So covering the head and legs with a bit of a flap over the middle. In urban Malaysia there is a mixture of women who will cover and many who will not. No one gets particularly agitated. IME Muslim women are very much the same as everyone else….

IthasYes · 13/07/2025 12:17

Yes but how do you become a Muslim woman or man ?

Why am I not Muslim ?

If you are supposedly born a Muslim and then it's a sin to leave the religion how is any of this a choice ?

Jamesblonde2 · 13/07/2025 12:18

It’s a shame that any religion causes you to feel restricted in what you wear or what activities you can take part in, such as whipping up your trousers to have a paddle. Only the women might be restricted of course, the blokes can dive in with their shorts and a bare top (eye roll)…..crazy.

SayDoWhatNow · 13/07/2025 12:19

Lots of interesting discussion on this thread.

My DH is Muslim and my in laws are all practicing Muslims who live in Egypt.

To answer the very original question about rolling trousers up, I have 2 SIL. One is very scrupulous about her religious practice and would probably not do this. The other is less detail focused and would likely do it without a second thought.

Regarding modest swimwear, both my SIL would wear something like these (the colourful ones) at the beach but put their hair inside the little cap:
https://www.seafanny.com/collections/long-sleeve-burkini

When on holiday at the Red Sea or North Coast in Egypt, I have worn a short version of these (knee / elbow length) to be mindful of my IL's cultural practices/preferences. So long as it's made of proper swimming costume material, rather than being modified yoga pants, it's actually very comfortable: lightweight, breathable, not restrictive, dries quickly in the sun and requires less assiduous sun cream application in hot weather.

What I do think is restrictive is the huge difference in dress code expectations for men and women generally. It is not uncommon in Cairo malls to see young couples / family groups where the men are in shorts and t-shirt with flip flops and the women are wearing long heavy trousers, trainers, a long sleeved shirt and a long knitted cardigan on top. Possibly with a vest underneath. In temperatures in the high 30s / 40s. And they are absolutely too hot. My less observant SIL would probably only bother with 2 layers on top (vest + shirt) and the first thing she does on getting home from work is to change into cooler home clothes, get a cold drink and complain about the hot weather. The social/cultural requirement for women in Egypt to dress in a "modest" way definitely limits how their comfort and participation in public spaces / public life.

I think a couple of things that are missing from this thread are an awareness of different cultural practices and social class.

Firstly, black abayas / burkas / niqabs are not how observant Muslim women everywhere would dress - this is more associated with Gulf States like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (where to be fair lots of men would also wear a long loose robe over their regular clothes and a head cover). That style of dress is not common in middle class communities in Egypt/Lebanon for example and is generally seen as a bit excessive. It is much more common for women to wear Western style clothes - just long sleeves / long trousers/ extra layers even in hot weather. I think that cultural aspect is often lost in Western discussions about Islam, because there's an assumption that practicing the religion as a woman means wearing a burka and that's just not the case.

The second thing is to do with social class and access to public spaces / facilities. A trip to the beach is financially out of reach for a regular middle class Cairo family. Particularly because most beaches are only accessible from expensive beach front hotels or holiday homes.And going to a swimming pool would either mean living in a fancy private compound/gated community (£££) or belonging to one of the fancy "sports clubs" in central areas (also £££). So needing swimwear at all is already a pretty niche thing.

Very wealthy people are insulated from the whole issue either because they can afford to arrange totally private access to swimming facilities (eg holiday villa with a private pool) or because they tend to move in social circles where more Western dress and less strict religious observance is fashionable. And because they are insulated from the financial stress of needing to earn a wage.

For middle class women, on the other hand, cultural practices around modest dress are much more strictly observed and policed (by families/friends, not the actual police), from a need to avoid social censure and rejection. And because being able to do things "properly" or traditionally can be a mark of financial success and social class (eg being a SAHM because you are financially secure enough not to need to work).

I'm waffling here, but I think what I was trying to say is that it's not as simple as religious observance is oppressive vs women are freely choosing to wear modest clothes out of personal choice/preference - in a relatively conservative Muslim society, observant dress codes are mainstream and individual choices are made within that context.

Covered Burkini Swimwear

Full length modest swimsuit,Fully Covered Swimsuits

https://www.seafanny.com/collections/long-sleeve-burkini

SonK · 13/07/2025 12:20

Zellycat · 13/07/2025 12:09

Do you think the covered up women don’t have aesthetic treatments? You don’t think they do hair removal? Cosmetic surgery?

They absolutely do!

Of course we do, but I think the poster means they don't feel the pressure to do it as much as they will not be judged by their appearance (not visible).

I have a fake tan on right now which has gone a little patchy in certain areas but as I am not showing any of my legs or body, I don't have to stress about it fixing it just yet and can go out and about in my linen trousers and long sleeve linen blouse without worrying what others will think of me - women can be even more judgemental when it comes to these things!!

Sahara123 · 13/07/2025 12:21

TheHazelCritic · 12/07/2025 19:58

I am a one and would paddle without rolling my clothes up, if I am prepared I'll wear swimming leggings under my abaya, lift the abaya and let the leggings wet.
Many burkini aren't modest enough for me but I found one I am happier with from abroad.
They now make abayas in swimming material.
If women want to swim they will, it isn't like the husband is forcing them not to. People must think the same when they see my husband and kids swimming whilst I look on, the reason is that I hate swimming and much prefer relaxing on the beach. I'll get my feet wet if it's hot 💁
The narrative of big bad Muslim husband is not often the case

Thank you for this. It’s interesting to hear other perspectives. I am interested in other cultures, I wouldn’t be sure if I should ask in case I offended or appeared critical, or that I was just being nosey. It’s good to learn.

PreciousMomentsHun · 13/07/2025 12:26

IthasYes · 13/07/2025 12:17

Yes but how do you become a Muslim woman or man ?

Why am I not Muslim ?

If you are supposedly born a Muslim and then it's a sin to leave the religion how is any of this a choice ?

It's the fastest growing religion in men's prisons.

Why a woman would convert especially to Islam but really to any of the Abramic religions (apart from the usual reason of being fannystruck by some man) is beyond me.

lovemeblender · 13/07/2025 12:26

Was in a Muslim country recently and on the beach there was a range of women, some completely covered who rolled up trousers, some didn't. All appeared to be having a very nice time and participating freely.

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