Why can't people respect the rules around toilets!?!?

[coffeeandmycats]

I’m really angry and just need to get this off my chest. Me and my sister run a small shop, just the two of us and a couple of customer toilets, one for biological women, one for men, signs on the door. Never had any trouble. Until today.
A regular female customer comes up looking pretty upset, says there’s a man in the women’s loo. I go in to check. At first it sort of looked okay, hair, maybe a trans woman? But then I heard a deep voice, saw stubble and a broad build, a wig that looked like a last-minute costume. It was clearly a bloke who didn’t pass. Not even close.
I said politely, this is the women’s loo, please leave. He stared at me and said flat out, “I was born female.” Not I identify as a woman, he literally claimed he was biologically female. I asked him to go and he refused.
So I rang 101, didn’t want drama and wasn’t sure what rights we had as shop owners. The police said we can’t challenge how someone describes themselves. If he says he was born female, that’s it. We’re not allowed to question it based on how he looks. And since no laws were broken, they won’t come unless he’s being abusive or refusing to follow reasonable requests after shouting multiple times.
They also confirmed that the new Supreme Court judgment about women-only spaces is civil law, not criminal. That means even though legally women are defined by birth, you still can’t challenge someone in the moment just because they say they’re female.
I looked into it after, and yep, the Supreme Court (in For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers) ruled that “woman” in the Equality Act 2010 means biologically female. But that applies to protecting women-only spaces under civil law. It doesn’t let us stop someone on the spot from walking into the wrong loo. The police still can’t act if someone says they’re female, even if it’s clearly false.
This bloke walked into the women’s loo, lied about being born female, made women uncomfortable, and we’ve got no legal leg to stand on to stop him. Women customers left feeling unsafe.
So what exactly are we supposed to do? Sit back and let it happen because the law only kicks in later on? Are we just meant to trust someone who’s lying about their sex to decide what sexed spaces they can use?
It feels like women’s rights are just words, no power in real life. Anyone else run into this mess in their business? I'm nearly losing my mind over how absurd this is.

Well yes, I agree they aren’t alike. Asking women to use a mixed sex space isn’t the same as asking a “trans woman” to share with other men.

Trans people have no interest in bothering anyone, but they need to be able to use facilities compatible with their dignity, humanity, health, safety and privacy like everyone else.

That’s all they want no matter how much you twist it.

Our local library and market have several of these. I think any new installs by the council (in our case, not sure about others) are done this way. They avoid all toilet related issues as only one person (or in some cases someone they have consented to be with them such as a child or carer) goes in at a time and it's totally private to do whatever you need to do. Is converting to something similar an option at any point?

Whilst this is true, you cannot discriminate against a protected characteristic. So if the person or people believed they were being discriminated against and sued you, you would have to defend yourself and prove this wasn't the case. So even though you don't need to give a reason to refuse service or ask someone to leave, you would be wise to have a reasonable one.

There's been recent cases of pub companies settling claims with the travelling communities because they were claiming they were refused service just because they were travellers.

But they do not respect the dignity, humanity, health, safety and privacy of anybody else by demanding to use what is not legally theirs.

I am not sure I get this. Only one person is in the toilet at any one time? How does it make a difference which sex it is. It will always be one sex? And when you lock the door behind you it is your safe space?

You’re right, it’s worse. Asking a bloke in a dress to pee next to a bloke in jeans, is not the same as asking a woman to wash out her mooncup in front of a bloke in a wig.

When you post this picture/ what are you trying to say?

Is it your suggestion that all trans women look like this?

Perfectly put 👏

Is that what a trans woman is to you? A “bloke in a dress”?

Mammalian sexual reproduction evolved millions of years ago.
It has not changed.
Humans are mammals.
All humans are and always will be
male or female

Why does dignity, humanity, health, safety and privacy only go one way? Why does the tiny amount of males feelings trump women’s who don’t want to share with males?

Calling a trans woman a “bloke in a dress” is your idea of “perfectly put”?

Why don’t you explain then? What makes a a trans woman aka a male, a woman?

To the absolutely contrary- trans people women do not need women transwomen to enter their spaces sort out their problems, women just need people trans women to leave them alone,

There were no "trans people" until 50-60 years ago. Creative surgeons are now prepared to mutilate bodies into a pastiche of the opposite sex aded by cross-sex hormones. It's a social contagion facilitated by technology.

No. But Alex is an example of a transwomen. One you had many articles written praising Alex and her beard for expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman. Also calls himself a lesbian.

If you want to talk about transwomen you have to include all of them in the conversation which means the ones with beards, the AGPs and the rapists

Bullshit. Trans are not homogenous. Some may be genuinely gender dysphoric, others are autogynephilics turning themselves on, others are straight blokes in a wig out for a perv.

because asking women to share facilities with trans women doesn’t harm women.

Asking trans women to use men’s facilities is a completely different kettle of fish. I explained in a post above.

the latter violates:

‘dignity’ and ‘humanity’ because forcing trans women to use the mens is a total denial, refutation of the fact that they are trans women , which goes to the core of who they are.
Being trans is not trivial or superficial, it’s a fundamental characteristic of a person that affects their entire being in the world. As with sexuality it can be profoundly harmful, painful, detrimental to health, etc., to force someone to repress or deny this.
‘health’ because of these aspects and also because it triggers gender dysphoria- which is debilitatingly painful , and a risk to health.
‘Privacy’ and ‘safety’ because it outs them every time they use the facilities. This also speaks to dignity and humanity of course.

Because he’s in a wig and a dress enjoying the cats!! Ffs

Reporting this

That's the way safeguarding works.

I think being a transwoman is something very different for lots of different people.
It might be a child wanting to belong to something, who is perhaps neurodiverse.
It might be a child who has been brought up to believe in harmful gender stereotypes and because they don't fit the stereotype believes they must be the opposite sex.
It might be a teenager who has yet to realise they are in fact gay
It might be man who'd like to access women's spaces because they have a sexual fetish and get turned on when they dress in overtly sexual women's clothing.
There are more.....
But in all cases the trans woman is a man
Men do not belong in women's spaces or sports.

What part isn’t true?

I think being a transwoman is something very different for lots of different people.
It might be a child wanting to belong to something, who is perhaps neurodiverse.
It might be a child who has been brought up to believe in harmful gender stereotypes and because they don't fit the stereotype believes they must be the opposite sex.
It might be a teenager who has yet to realise they are in fact gay
It might be man who'd like to access women's spaces because they have a sexual fetish and get turned on when they dress in overtly sexual women's clothing.
There are more.....
But in all cases the trans woman is a man
Men do not belong in women's spaces or sports.