Why can't people respect the rules around toilets!?!?

[coffeeandmycats]

I’m really angry and just need to get this off my chest. Me and my sister run a small shop, just the two of us and a couple of customer toilets, one for biological women, one for men, signs on the door. Never had any trouble. Until today.
A regular female customer comes up looking pretty upset, says there’s a man in the women’s loo. I go in to check. At first it sort of looked okay, hair, maybe a trans woman? But then I heard a deep voice, saw stubble and a broad build, a wig that looked like a last-minute costume. It was clearly a bloke who didn’t pass. Not even close.
I said politely, this is the women’s loo, please leave. He stared at me and said flat out, “I was born female.” Not I identify as a woman, he literally claimed he was biologically female. I asked him to go and he refused.
So I rang 101, didn’t want drama and wasn’t sure what rights we had as shop owners. The police said we can’t challenge how someone describes themselves. If he says he was born female, that’s it. We’re not allowed to question it based on how he looks. And since no laws were broken, they won’t come unless he’s being abusive or refusing to follow reasonable requests after shouting multiple times.
They also confirmed that the new Supreme Court judgment about women-only spaces is civil law, not criminal. That means even though legally women are defined by birth, you still can’t challenge someone in the moment just because they say they’re female.
I looked into it after, and yep, the Supreme Court (in For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers) ruled that “woman” in the Equality Act 2010 means biologically female. But that applies to protecting women-only spaces under civil law. It doesn’t let us stop someone on the spot from walking into the wrong loo. The police still can’t act if someone says they’re female, even if it’s clearly false.
This bloke walked into the women’s loo, lied about being born female, made women uncomfortable, and we’ve got no legal leg to stand on to stop him. Women customers left feeling unsafe.
So what exactly are we supposed to do? Sit back and let it happen because the law only kicks in later on? Are we just meant to trust someone who’s lying about their sex to decide what sexed spaces they can use?
It feels like women’s rights are just words, no power in real life. Anyone else run into this mess in their business? I'm nearly losing my mind over how absurd this is.

If you undertake extreme body modification then it's tough shit if your appearance means you are excluded from both the Ladies & the Gents.

I think being a transwoman is something very different for lots of different people.
It might be a child wanting to belong to something, who is perhaps neurodiverse.
It might be a child who has been brought up to believe in harmful gender stereotypes and because they don't fit the stereotype believes they must be the opposite sex.
It might be a teenager who has yet to realise they are in fact gay
It might be man who'd like to access women's spaces because they have a sexual fetish and get turned on when they dress in overtly sexual women's clothing.
There are more.....

But in all cases the trans woman is a man

Men do not belong in women's spaces or sports.

Appalling hatred 😂. Nope women just want men to stay out of places not for them. The ones that adhere to this are just grand.

Wow. What other people's entirely-unrelated-to-being-women's problems do women need to sort out for them to avoid being /clutches pearls/ completely unreasonable?

I believe Sunderland supporters can be pretty unsafe in the men's toilets in a Newcastle pub on match day. Is that women's problem to solve as well?

There's an increasing problem with phone theft in London. Unreasonable bloody women are just standing by and letting that happen, right?

Polar bears losing habitat. Women, you need to sort this out!

Ah Wikipedia. The bastion of fact and reliability.

Do you think telling men to use men's facilities, as per the law, is 'hate'?

Seriously?

Trans rights don't trump women's rights. The law says that women are entitled to single sex spaces.

All I can say is Evolution.

I don’t understand the 2015 reference.

Lol. This is pretty desperate!

I said you are being unreasonable as you do have a legal leg to stand on. It’s private property- you should have just asked this person to leave. You didn’t need to explain yourself to them or the police. You could have just told the police someone was trespassing and ask for them to be removed.

Can you explain why?

‘dignity’ and ‘humanity’ because forcing trans women to use the mens is a total denial, refutation of the fact that they are trans women , which goes to the core of who they are.

Being trans is not trivial or superficial, it’s a fundamental characteristic of a person that affects their entire being in the world. As with sexuality it can be profoundly harmful, painful, detrimental to health, etc., to force someone to repress or deny this.

‘health’ because of these aspects and also because it triggers gender dysphoria- which is debilitatingly painful , and a risk to health.

‘Privacy’ and ‘safety’ because it outs them every time they use the facilities. This also speaks to dignity and humanity of course.

And also can you explain why "I can't use the men's" has become "I can only use the women's"?

because often there isn’t another option available. And even where there is , it is undignified, humiliating and a violation of privacy / safety to single trans people out in this way.

ok so this explains your opinion.

You have absolutely no understanding of what being trans is.

They’re all men @Tandora and I am unmoved by the emotional blackmail. Women only spaces are for women. Not men.

@miraxxxah yes bitchy. Thanks, that’s much better

@MrsSkylerWhite

You are mistakenly thinking that transwomen are a subset of women when in fact they are (as you know) as subset of men. You are declaring the possibility of more than two sexes to make your argument plausible.

It's honestly quite bizarre, to believe than the group identifying as transwomen are anything other than biological men.

To the absolutely contrary- trans people do not need women to sort out their problems, they just need people to leave them alone,

@Tandora The only people being “unreasonable adults” are those who fail to understand that forcing trans women to use men’s facilities is entirely incompatible with their dignity, health, safety, privacy and humanity.

One can equally say that the only people being “unreasonable adults” are those who fail to understand that forcing women to share facilities with men (aka transwomen) is entirely incompatible with their dignity, health, safety etc.

And they will be left alone by women when they aren’t invading our spaces, talking over us about our lives as women and trying to colonise our sex.

I don't think it would be using the mens toilet that would out Alex (pictured) as a transwoman

Men will be left alone when they stop going into women’s spaces not for them.

No. They just need to leave women and their spaces alone.

No. Asking women to share facilities with trans women is nothing like asking a trans woman to use the facilities for men. There is nothing equal or comparable there.

Keep the toilet keys behind the counter and only let people use them if you are happy to, otherwise out of order.