To ask what you think about Starmer’s plan to stop the boats?

[WhereIsMyJumper]

I cannot see how his ‘one in one out’ plan is going to help. I also can’t understand why France is cooperating with us. What’s the incentive?

If you don’t agree with this plan, what would your answer be?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ckg6x4g6gg6t

But everything Farage has stood for so far has made the issue worse not better. Not just small boats:

He also made a big fuss about the fishing industry (and fishermen need help) but when he was on the EUs.fisheries committee where he could have advocated for British fishermen.he only showed up for one meeting. When the UK left the EU those communities were further devastated.
Farage made a huge deal about the EUs persecution of British farmers. But leaving the EU meant they lost EU subsidies and easy markets, and are now worse.of. Super woke lefty liberal Jeremy Clarkson also thought Brexit would be a disaster for farming and he was proved right
Farage makes a huge deal about how people in the post-industrial regions have been left behind. They have been it is shameful. The problems started (but didn't end) with the destruction of UK industries in the North etc by Thatcher. Farage idealises Thatcher. Brexit had a catastrophic effect on an already struggling manufacturing sector. More people lost their jobs.

I dont blame people who believed Farage or voted for Brexit. They were in many cases desperate for change and were left of wordt of than before. I do blame Farage- he knows what he is saying is lies and I think he enjoys it.

I think you've misread my post and that's entirely due to me failing to use my punctuation and words properly!

Do you have a right to join any random relatives you may have in any country? No
Do you have the right to safety?.yes

And that's the problem... which the government's new agreement with France begins to fix. The last government removed all legal routes for people to come here and claim asylum... this was the heart of the insuperable legal challenges to the flawed and cruel Rwanda scheme. Now at last there will be a safe and legal route to apply, come to the UK and be assessed for asylum based on family connections.

It's like voting for an arsonist because the current government isn't doing enough about forest fires

You still have the right to apply for asylum in a country where your relatives live

But he's only.been an MP for a little while. He has little or no power. Hes mainly been a campaigner. And he happens to be good at it and a lot of people support him. You can't control that. Free speech etc

Thatcher had many flaws and did devastate the industrial North but she (wrongly) believed in the vision of Britain thriving in service industries and that everyone would ultimately benefit - that is why she was so keen on the Single Market. That was pretty much her doing. What you cannot have is a post-industrial Britain outside of the SM. She must be turning in her grave so fast she's probably half way to the Earth's core by now.
Farage is a political midget next to her. People like him and Trump believe that the country is there to serve THEM, not the other way around- which is why I think they should never be handed the reigns of government.

He's been an MP for a year, can you explain what he's achieved for his constituents?

When he was an MEP he was on a committee that specifically was set up to talk about fishing quotas. He had power or at least influence then to make a positive difference for UK fishermen. He only turned up to one meeting. He then campaigned for Brexit that fishermen were being treated badly.

I think we agree that he is good at campaigning. He prefers campaigning over issues to solving them. That's sort of the problem

Edit:sorry not just fishing quotas. But fishing policy. Basically his whole role then was to represent UK fishermen's interest.

How close a "relative" though? Spouse and child maybe. Not any relative. So in your scenario, the Afghan lady has a husband who left her in Afghanistan to be oppressed while he fled to the UK? And she is applying for asylum? To be reunited with him? Is that what you are saying? Not making a point just trying to understand what circumstances you mean re relatives giving you the right to claim residency.

In that context campaigning = gaslighting

@Namitynamename

hat's a tiny part of it though. You are talking about him being a much more powerful figure when you say he has made so many things worse.

Hang on...so Farage was in charge of UK fishing policy??? Who knew!

If everyone applied the family connections approach what would happen to those seeking asylum without any connections?

I can see why the southern EU countries are speaking up. They are first point of entry. Their electorate are a no too.

He must be held accountable for the havoc he's wreaked through Brexit and the continued influence on the right, pulling the Tories ever further to the right.
Influence may not be power but it can certainly turn an entire political landscape sceptic.

He instigated and campaigned for Brexit and we've lost billions. He wasn't a tiny part of that, Cameron had the referendum because of UKIP.

The voters have more say on this. Politicians chase votes.

If public sentiment wasn’t there you’d not see the shifts. This is across the EU too.

But the whole electorate aren't all.fools. Quite a few people can decide for themselves what they think? Surely? Or do they need @StandFirm to put them right? Get out on that soapbox and see who is with you!!! I'm sure many people will be.

I agree that the UK is too tempting.

Also men come through various countries which are only too keen to usher them on. The arrivals in Italy don’t want to stay there - they are making for Northern Europe.

If hordes of men were passing through my garden to get to the neighbour’s shangri la I’d be helping them over the fence, not trying to keep them.

I think if you're main concern about Brexit was that you wanted the UK to not be in the EU then you have good reason to feel satisfied.

People that voted Leave because they were upset over the UK fishing industry, farming industry, regional inequality, irregular migration etc all saw those things get worse as a direct result of Brexit. And it severely damaged the economy/growth making people poorer. Garage wasn't solely responsible for that. But he was a big voice and a key influencer
He also persistently said before the vote that leaving the EU wouldn't mean leaving all trade deals/a hard Brexit. As soon as Leave won he did a heel turn and started campaigning for a Hard Brexit..when days earlier he was calling people who were earning of a hard Brexit "project fear"

Normally when a politician/campaigner promises something and the opposite happens people lose faith in them. Farage is able to leverage dissatisfaction at issues he helped cause to portray himself as the only one who can help.

He also inserts himself into.difficult moments/issues and makes it all about him as the mouthpiece for "what people want". Which actually makes it harder for people directly impacted to talk about the issue in their own words. That's also the medias fault though.

Again it's like a known arsonist insisting they are the only one who can deal with all the forest fires.

There’s been a strong narrative on immigration for a few decades. If people say hang on we have borders what about security and not seeing huge organisations prosper from people movement

What’s happening now is not as intended, it’s vast profiteering. So people ask for change, there’s usually a politician ready to take it up. You’d hope so otherwise people aren’t represented.

You're making your own point about why he is electable: deprivation.

Deprived people vote to save their own resources. The more people are taxed and the lower the perceived standard of living and access to good services, the more people experience deprivation.

Brexit happened because of a perception of sending money to the EU and free movement. Immigration continues and so does the terminal decline of UK services and tax increases. Its why immigration is becoming a more unpalatable.

A childhood analogy is that 10 children buy 100 sweets are and share them. 2 new children arrive and the first 10 children share them with the new kids. The first 10 children don't mind to begin with but then 2 more children join and the first 10 children start to resent the idea of paying for 90 sweets, because sweets are now more expensive AND sharing them with 4 kids are who aren't contributing to the sweet kitty. They start thinking "why should I?" So if an adult comes along and tells them they can have 100 sweets and not share them, of course they are willing to take a chance, even if it sounds too good to be true, because noone else is saying that they will help them and have been looking on and offering no meaningful intervention.

@Quirkswork he wasnt in charge of UK fishing policy. As an MEP though he was PAID to help put forwards the interests of the UK fish industry in the EU fishing Committee. If Spain's representatives.always show up to these meetings, and the UKs never does whose interests would be most represented in those discussions?

MPs and MEPs don't have absolute power. They are supposed to represent their constituents interests however.They are paid a lot of money to do so. Money he trousered.

He's been pretty consistent about his aims and what he believes in over the years. Unlike most politicians. Farage just happens to have succeeded in one of his aims. Most political careers end in failure so he's one of the few that can say that he has succeeded. As to the fallout, unfortunately Brexit was negotiated by Theresa May.

Seems fairly minor. Given all the trousering of cash the MEPs do. I don't think that's the main reason Farage is such an influential figure in politics.

Yes, but he was literally paid to put forward the interests of UK fishermen. And then didn't. And then told UK fishermen their interests weren't being represented...
that's the exact opposite of doing what he says.