To ask what you think about Starmer’s plan to stop the boats?

[WhereIsMyJumper]

I cannot see how his ‘one in one out’ plan is going to help. I also can’t understand why France is cooperating with us. What’s the incentive?

If you don’t agree with this plan, what would your answer be?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ckg6x4g6gg6t

Many thanks. Asylum shopping means they've tried to claim asylum in other countries which you can't do in the EU.

The frustration voting argument really irritates me. Voting for the 'feelz' is always such a great strategy, isn't it? It should be about thinking issues through and not going with the bullies who shout the loudest. Infantilised voters who get pandered to for their 'feelings' end up completely devaluing the democratic process. It's not about emotions. I mean, we're all fucking frustrated ffs - and if we vote in incompetent and dishonest idiots on the basis of 'frustration', we're going to get more and more frustrated anyway! It should be about choosing a path that will hopefully address long term issues and taking the time to understand what those issues are in the first place. Not sound bites and cheap photo ops.

No. People generally don't vote "herd like". That's rather dismissive of the majority of people. They vote according to their beliefs, their interests and what is happening in their lives. If they vote Reform it is because the other parties aren't representing their interests.

@safetyfreak most people on the boats slip away into the black economy .

''@MiloMinderbinder925 · Today 09:09
The French won't take them back. Therefore you are trying to dump people in another country without their permission. If the French would take them back, they'd already be doing it. Hence cloud cuckoo land.''

You are still not getting it...

This is not about worrying about the French.

If they allow undocumented people to leave their borders then the UK can return them to French waters where they again become France's problem.

Just like if you were on a plane landing at Heathrow from France without the correct visa/paperwork you would not be allowed in and you would be returned to where you travelled from.

It really is not that complicated.

You’re including the current gov with cheap sound bites and photo ops?

I think part of the issue is that the messaging has been completely misunderstood.

‘Stop the boats’ and ‘smash the gangs’ obviously meant just that - whereas as many of the population (myself included) probably thought it was a pledge to reduce immigration. It’s not, it’s a pledge to change the route they take and nothing more.

I would also be interested to see the demographic of those arriving on boats, where are they mainly coming from? What is causing the conditions that is making them flee their home country and how much has the West’s interference causing or contributing to the conditions they are fleeing from? If we are selling arms to unstable regions, are we
morally bound to accept its people that want to flee the fall out?

How do you stop immigration in 24 hours? Which immigration? All of it? So no foreign students propping up universities with their chunky fees, no care workers, no doctors?

Are we also unable ever to live in a foreign country for work? If your child fell in love with a person from the US would that just be tough luck as you can’t ever live in a country other than your country of birth?

Also, look at the countries which have not been successful. No EU.

The Brexit problem is little to do with not being in the EU, it is because of how we left it. If we’d never joined we’d probably be doing ok. As with marriage it’s often the divorce that causes major short to medium term issues. I’m sure that in 50 years, it all will have sorted itself out and we will be on the same economic footing as the rest of the EU, but before we get there, an awful lot of people will suffer. Will that be worth it?

That's not what the poster I was responding to was saying. You're giving Reform supporters too much credit. The majority of people don't support Reform, Reform have 4 MPs and some teenagers running councils. They're a joke. Their manifesto is a joke and their bots are clowns.

This would be my no1 priority.

In the UK you can be whoever you want, there is little check on peoples lives unless you break the law, which in most minor cases, isn't enforced, we don't have the people doing the checking.

I've lived in France and Sweden, it is not straight forward but of course we dress up our "freedoms" as something to cherish/ a dynamic economy etc etc.

Labour are now starting to crack down on businesses such as car washes and nail bars etc but its a mammoth task, for so long the issues have been ignored.

I suspect the visa requirements for the US might be a little different from our small boat policy.

A very quick search will give you the answer. Top 3 are Afghanistan (because we fucked it up), Syria (because we fucked it up), Iran (because we are threatening to fuck it up)

I actually think it’s an interesting idea but clearly part of a 1-2 we haven’t had announced yet. We’ll be getting digital id cards on our phones. The Europeans argue our model of healthcare and the gig economy mean that while undocumented migrants shouldn’t be able to work, it’s far too easy for them to do so and that’s a pull factor.

The point of the scheme is - and I’m sorry to state the obvious - it makes coming over pointless. You risk your life and all you do is free up a stranger to come here. You yourself go straight back. I think it’s new thinking and since we’ve tried actually everything else, I welcome it. I note that the French are also looking to change the law so they can intercept people at sea which will also help.

In order to crack down on anything you need to invest in law enforcement.

👏👏👏

Sorry, what? That was in response to the sweeping statement that “immigration could be stopped in 24 hours”

Ok that's your opinion. But it's not what the polls are showing. And 2029 is a long way away.
Democracy means one person one vote and my personal view is that you don't criticise others for how they decide to exercise their vote. You may obviously think they are wrong. But in my view it is wrong to insult them. Or at least not publicly! And self defeating if you are trying to persuade others of your point of view. Unfortunately politics is like that at the moment which is depressing. That's why we have rubbish MPs.

Absolutely and recruitment, training of staff such as Police, HMRC, Trading standards, all hollowed out over the last 14 years takes 3 to 5 years to get new staff....

We are rich on regulation, extremely poor on any form of enforcement, from dogs to trees/planning to workers/businesses not paying taxes.

Even building regs are now done via a bloody photo.

My post was in response to your comment about the US. Most countries want.good immigrants that pay their way and the ability to chose.

Exactly this. We have such an incredible paucity of leaders!

Since Blair decreed that 50% of the population should go to university the aptitude of those passing through has dropped dramatically.
The rigorous academia of university has largely gone.

There is a dearth of people up to the job of governing this country. Look at the shambles of the benefits system. It needs complete revision.

How can it be that a single parent diagnosed with anxiety, raising a child with an ADHD diagnosis gets more from the State than a person working minimum wage? What is the incentive to work?

There is a huge RECKONING coming. Starmer is out of his depth on so many fronts.

Brexit brings issues, but on this topic alone it’s not that relevant and we have more of a chance of dealing with it eg look to Aus

We’d need further mandate at a GE but I think that could be done if we’re still seeing increases.

UK is about on the EU average for the numbers going to Uni or don't you want a skilled workforce?

Allowing people to make an application from abroad might help reduce the numbers trying to cross the Channel ?
Or and this is a bit controversial, build a facility in France, take the details of people who have traveled here by boat, return them to the facility in France where they can wait until their application is processed. If rejected they can move to another country to try to claim asylum ?
A combination of the two might work better in the short to medium term.

And make it illegal to sell these types of boats across Europe unless sold to someone with a permit.

Load of bollocks. Nothing will change, and Macron doesn't give a toss as long as they keep heading to the UK. Why we keep handing over huge sums of money to the French I cannot comprehend as they clearly do nothing other than stand there and make sure these people leave. Surely there has to be a change in law to have any effect. I do think the Rwanda scheme (or similar offshore site) should have been stepped up rather than scrapped, with anyone entering illegally automatically shipped right out again. Labour are a fucking disaster.