TW - SA. To think that infidelity is rape

[Driftingawaynow]

Just interested in opinions here. I’ve been in relationships where my partner has been unfaithful and continued to sleep with me
i think part of the trauma of finding out is knowing that you’ve had sex with someone when if you’d have known you would not have done it.
So youve been tricked into having sex. That’s not consent, so is it rape?
I’ve also been raped in the more traditional sense whatever that means
if it is rape, what are the implications if we become aware that someone else is the victim of infidelity and they don’t know..

I’m so sorry you have been through all of this

I think this thread should be taken down as either way it is quite insulting to people on a sensitive topic

Of course

It's tricky because where do you draw the line? Would any untruth to get someone into bed be counted as rape?
For example, a man pretending to be rich or saying he is into the same sport, religion...

I guess there could be a sexual health risk in OP's example too though. If you believe you are the only person having sex with your partner you might make different contraception choices than if you knew they were having sex with someone else too.

I was going to bring up a similar comparison. “Romance scams” involve lying in order to get money, and it’s illegal (fraud). But a similar situation lying to get consent for sex we don’t view in the same way.

I don’t think it’s rape. But I think it’s interesting to consider how much importance we place on “informed consent” for sex.

I absolutely agree. Of course some women will be insulted, but until both situations have been experienced by a women, they can’t really compare the two. It could never be made law anyway, but it’s not wrong for OP to feel the way she does. I did a number of sessions with my therapist on this very topic, and it’s not abnormal to have those feelings.

Rape is already under prosecuted. How much more difficult would it become to prosecute a case where there was no evidence that sexual infidelity had taken place? Sarah and Mike are married. Sarah gets off with her colleague James at a conference. Then has sex with Mike the following week. Mike finds out, and reports rape. Sarah and James say no sex took place, they were just up in James’ hotel room demolishing the minibar and chatting. How does that get prosecuted?

Before no-fault divorce was introduced, only a tiny proportion of divorces were filed on the grounds of adultery, even where adultery was involved, because the legal standard to prove it happened was difficult.

I cannot even begin to describe how disgusted I am with the comparison. Of course it's not the same fucking thing. Catch yourself on.

I don't think it's rape, technically. In law, what does and does not constitute rape is quite specific. I think, as a word, it is far more useful when it has that narrow definition. Like "murder," it tells you exactly what someone has done and how depraved they are for doing it.

That said, perhaps there needs to be another word that encompasses deception and similar cases. I absolutely get where you're coming from and why it feels that way, I wouldn't be against considering it a similar crime, or a form of sexual assault/abuse. I don't know what that word would be, but I don't think it should be "rape."

I’ve experienced SA and I’m not offered by OP’s suggestion, I can completely see where she is coming from. I personally don’t think it’s rape but I do think it’s a form of control to withhold the truth.

You cannot consent of you do not have relevant information that the other party KNOWS would stop you consenting.

So lying about your age dramatically, cheating etc are all consent violations. They are violating the consent of their partner and I absolutely do believe that cheating should be punishable by law. A fine or community service would do nicely.

However I wouldn't use the word rape as it is already minimised and the conviction rates are so low that muddying those waters any further will only be bad for women.

on One hand I kind of get the consent by deception theory. You could equally apply that to any lie during the dating process
“I love dogs”
”I’m a millionaire”
“I want the same things you do”

on the other.
As a victim of SA
fuck you.

I find the comparison upsetting and hurtful

Of course it’s not rape. 🙄

I get what the OP is saying but with things like this, I think the question is, if it's rape, then what else is rape? Eg 'I only consented to sleep with him because he said he was rich'. I only consented to sex with her because she told me she was a virgin' (to use some horrible stereotypes). Is that rape? Would that mean a woman could rape a man? Would people have to be 100pc honest about everything, given no one knows what other lies consent might be based on? Would the same principles be applied to other crimes?

100% this. ^

I do understand what you mean, OP. I've been unfortunate enough to have experienced both stranger rape and rape within a relationship, and then betrayal in another.
All were traumatising, but tge last was the one that really tipped me over in terms of how badly it broke me.
In that case, we had a very intense sex life and afterwards, he said to me that the reason he'd kept various things from me was that he knew I'd stop having sex with him.
Looking back, it's hard to explain how utterly brutal that was. It's a complete headfuck to think of all the times I said 'Yes' when I would have refused if I'd been aware. And he knew that.
He'd consciously arranged things to keep me in the dark so I'd keep saying 'yes' instead of 'no'.
I look back at it and feel absolutely gross and violated.
I don't think rape is the right word for it, but it can also leave deep and lasting trauma around sex.
We do need more discussions around what it means to consent freely because it doesn't happen in a vacuum.

It doesn't have to be rape to be a horrible, shitty and inexcusable thing.

No, not rape.

It's betrayal but I don't think it can be described but as rape

Bless you, so sorry you’ve had to cope with this and I think you’re right

I feel the same as you OP, it would be huge betrayal for me and it would make me physically sick

I think sex by deception would be a really sensible label to put on it, because it is true that we are talking about the actual experience of having sex in the moment not being traumatic , the trauma comes later and yeah agree that it’s something different from what we broadly understand to be rape.

but however, you wash it, it is sex without consent and that’s a huge deal imo and is not taken seriously enough. It’s not that long ago that rape was considered impossible within marriage. Attitudes change over time because of discussion of difficult topics like this

Its part of the risk you take when you choose to have sex with someone nobody knows for a fact that their partner is faithful. But comparing it to rape is pretty disgusting. A lot of the reason rape is so traumatic is the violence that goes along with it the being pinned down, the roughness, the not knowing if your going to be murdered after. The inability to protect yourself from stds and pregnancy. The legal aftermath of having to repeatedly give your statement having to stand up in court and having everything you say picked apart. You dont get this from consensual sex.

I strongly disagree. I've also experienced both and for me, the lasting emotional damage of being raped was so much worse than my ex being unfaithful. As shitty as the person was who cheated on me, I would never label them a rapist.
I don't quite understand the consent thing, it didn't even cross my mind when my ex cheated that when having sex with me he had been with someone else. I mean neither of us were virgins. I also never disclosed to him I'd been raped. Does that mean I deceived him and it was non consensual? Maybe he wouldn't have wanted sex with someone who'd been raped.