TW - SA. To think that infidelity is rape

[Driftingawaynow]

Just interested in opinions here. I’ve been in relationships where my partner has been unfaithful and continued to sleep with me
i think part of the trauma of finding out is knowing that you’ve had sex with someone when if you’d have known you would not have done it.
So youve been tricked into having sex. That’s not consent, so is it rape?
I’ve also been raped in the more traditional sense whatever that means
if it is rape, what are the implications if we become aware that someone else is the victim of infidelity and they don’t know..

Dating for months, believe this is the one. Other partner is of differing opinion, knowingly so to them (but not you). Still continues to sleep with you.
You wouldn't have slept with them had you have known.

That's not rape. Neither is your example @Driftingawaynow .

It's deception.

So you didn't really want people's opinions, then?

Maybe explore counselling? It sounds like you’ve been through a lot in life and it can help you explore these feelings.

I think infidelity in many cases is multiple types of abuse, and I agree the physical part does include the issue of consent because some would not consent to sex if they knew the partner was having sex with others. There's also the issue of being exposed to possible STIs and the other partner's flora that might not mesh well with the unknowing partner's.

I agree that legally, it's likely not going to be seen that way, but I agree it's a violation of personal boundaries.

I have also been “properly raped”

I think that's quite offensive actually. Properly raped as opposed to what?? Pretend raped?

I was just responding to people saying it’s insulting to victims of SA to raise this question because I am one and I disagree . We are all entitled to our opinions of course.

Yeah, I’ve had loads of therapy and this was all a very long time ago

It’s quite a weird area isn’t it. Rape means no consent.

Would you consent to having sex with your husband if you knew he was shagging the office secretary? No.

But if you don’t know he is you’ve consented to sex that you wouldn’t have if you had the full picture.

It’s definitely deceptive.

Just as a women pretending to be a man as that case a few years ago. The women had consented to sex with a man with a penis not a women with a toy. The women couldn’t consent to that and did not which is how we all heard about it.

No it isn't rape, you were duped by an arsehole but you weren't raped.

No, it isn’t. OP clearly explained what they meant in their posts before that and you’ve picked that out to be offended. Totally unnecessary to be ‘offended’ at someone’s explanation of their own rape.

Yeah exactly, that’s what I mean

perhaps there needs to be another word for it, but tricking someone to enthusiastically give consent based on a lie is, in my opinion, somewhere in the realm of sexual assault

I agree it is not the same as rape. But I would be open to another well defined offence being created for it. "Obtaining sex by deception" or something. To include stealthing, and any other significant deception which would alter a reasonable person's consent (these would have to be clearly stipulated).

It always confuses me that society considers lying about money to be fraud (in some circumstances) but that lying about relationships is absolutely fine. I know I find the latter far more abhorrent. I think that prolonged/calculated "crimes of the heart" should be acknowledged in law in some way.

Infidelity is shit but for the OP to liken it to rape is, in my opinion, deeply offensive to anyone who has actually been raped.

I would get this thread closed, it's really not appropriate.

This sounds sensible

My honest opinion is it is awful and I’m sure there are a lot of feelings that cross over and are similar. The feeling of betrayal, hurt, feelings of disgust. But they are not the same thing. I think there should be a word for it and maybe there is but it isn’t rape.
I think (my opinion) it is insulting that the majority or rape victims. I understand you feel differently

It’s a bit like losing a baby to miscarriage at 10 weeks is awful and comes with a lot of grief and sadness, but it’s not the same as losing a newborn to child loss. There are similar feelings but it shouldn’t be called the same thing

You may think so. Personally I think thats a dreadful description to use.

And I stand by saying i find that offensive, as is my right

It’s certainly deception. But equally, I can think of all kinds of situations where you might e.g. be dating somebody (or even married to someone) who has told lies about who they are and what their lifestyle is, and had you known that they were lying and were actually totally different you wouldn’t ever have agreed to date or have sex with them. If deception were taken into account, defining rape and who should be prosecuted for it would be incredibly complex.

You’ve deliberately taken it out of context when OP has clearly explained it.

OP clarified that she was also a victim of rape.

I was raped on my way home from work one evening very brutally by a stranger and was left with extensive injuries. Years later I discovered that my exDH was having numerous affairs. I absolutely identify with the OP, I felt very strongly that my consent had been tricked out of me by deception. He was coming home at times directly from having sex with OW and having sex with me. I felt filthy and contaminated and it triggered the PTSD that I’d suffered after my assault.

It is not insulting to compare the two. Please don’t speak for all victims of rape/SA as we are individuals and will all have different experiences.

We can agree to disagree

Responding to the OP’s question about why some lies negate consent and others don’t:

I think part of the reason is that we have to draw the line somewhere. If lies about circumstances counted to negate consent, where would it stop?

Person A lies about being faithful
Person B lies about being unmarried
Person C lies about how old they are
Person D lies about how rich they are
Person E says “I love you and want a future with you” but they don’t actually

Which of these lies should negate consent? Bit tricky.

Whereas if it’s a lie about the physical act, the victim can say, I did not consent to that act (eg sex without rather than with a condom, or with a toy rather than a penis).

So would this imagined law be applied to unfaithful women too?

To be fair, OP didn’t say once it should be just for men

Sex via deception with risk to sexual health. Because even condoms are not 100%.

Not sure what the outcome would actually be though?

But it does feel wrong when you think about that sex via deception is just seen as ok really
because oh well people cheat.

and of course men and women.

it is not insulting to compare the two. Please don’t speak for all victims of rape/SA as we are individuals and will all have different experiences.

True. And some of us find the comparison very insulting. That's no less valid than the fact that you don't and say that it's not an insult. You don't speak for all victims either.