To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

[Locutus2000]

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

I mean sure it would resolve the issue a bit if they put the immigration rules back the way they were so that U.K. grads were preferentially employed until the bottleneck is cleared but immigration is not the CAUSE of this issue. The cause is U.K. FY Drs not applying for training posts in previous years meaning that they were necessarily taken by IMGs.

@poetryandwine no, never talked about where doctors go to school. Who cares ? Obviously some people, but thankfully not anyone sane.

So you agree that article says nothing about strikes? Different behaviour is a weird concept - seem to put people into pigeon holes when everyone is different.

Definitely a problem. backlog will take years to sort out. Workforce planning has not been great has it.

Surely you can work out the consequences of having (for these cohorts of resident doctors) roughly 72-78% of voters from state schools?

If the voters in parliamentary constituency are 75% registered Tory, which candidate do you expect to win the election?

You have been all over the place in what you debate and ask for. No one can know what you are referring to if you do not say explicitly.

We both agree with @ThePure about workforce planning however!

No I have been v clear and simple. Schooling makes no difference to whether you strike or not.

I thought you had a phD is causation and correlation ? Where are your facts showing state school pupils strike more ? I’m still waiting.

Love the idea though that all state school doctors are militant socialists. Last school mock election we had Reform won by landslide (staff were not happy with this !). Most of these kids will be eligible to vote at next election!!!!

It has happened before though. I’ve lived through it in 2007/8 and so have a lot of Drs on this thread. Some people went abroad for a few years. I am not sure that the mass exodus that was threatened at the time did in fact transpire however. Maybe some people were persuaded to switch to specialties that were not their 1st choice which would be no bad thing.

I certainly do not have the data to discuss correlation vs causation for any putative link between a resident doctor’s schooling and their decision regarding strike action. I doubt anyone does at this point.

To suppose otherwise is to misunderstand the concepts.

In order even to assess correlation, one would need to know where the voters were schooled. I doubt such a survey has been taken, or would be taken.

To the contrary, this particular strike seems to many of us who ordinarily support workers particularly tin eared. If a survey of doctors who voted to strike were taken, I would expect political affiliations to be a very mixed bag.

It’s been a while since the YP I know skewed strongly Left.

@poetryandwineso why do you keep going on about state school doctors being more likely to strike ? I expect there is a mix of all backgrounds both ways. Because people are different and the school they attended many years ago will play v little role in their adult life.

????

I just got through saying no one can know. Data do not exist AFAIK.

I said that because so many more of the doctors are state schooled as a voting block they controlled the vote.

That is a very different statement.

@poetryandwine and I think that’s rubbish. What is ‘block voting ‘ ? Do you think there was a survey and all the state school doctors contacted each other to decide how to vote ? Why because you went to state school are you more likely to vote to strike ? What a v strange concept. Do you know any people that went to state schools ? Many of them will be richer than you 😊

Of course not. But with 70-78% of the resident doctors coming from state schools, doctors from state schools will determine the outcome of the election

As to your last sentence, do tell me more about my net worth - please.

So DD was on a 5 day stretch of nights - something done in many jobs throughout the world - mumsneedwine!
Could you please stop spouting rubbish on junior doctors hours- most work 40-48 hrs per week then a stretch of nights.
Over three threads now you have been arrogant, condescending and offensive to anyone who dares disagree with you - including doctors themselves!

Do I agree with the junior doctors strikes this time- absolutely not. My department has just appointed a new consultant who will now earn less than he did as an SPR - the NHs does not value experience and responsibility as long as junior doctors get more monies- NOW. If they campaiged for a 2.5% interest rate on loans I would support it but not this.

Thank you @stuffedpeppers

I honestly just think she is saying that as the vast majority of Drs did go to a state school that QED many of them must have voted to strike.

The data do not exist to draw any conclusion over the interaction between schooling and striking. I think it is a red herring in any case and I somewhat regret mentioning it. My original point was that Drs are still overwhelming from affluent backgrounds statistically and as such the general public are less likely to have sympathy with what they see as a bunch of greedy privileged people striking over pay. Nurses are viewed more sympathetically as it is clearer to people that they are indeed underpaid and have less power.

Edit: outcome of the strike ballot

@stuffedpeppers in a free country I will continue to post facts. I have not been condescending to anyone and have put up with a fair amount of abuse. Especially from a few consultants who have called F1s useless, but boy do they like their PAs. Just because I disagree does not make me wrong. I don’t like strikes ever, but I support the right to have them.

Please show me where I have been condescending ? Please show me where I have been offensive ?

The NHS is in a massive mess after years of mismanagement so what do you suggest ? Unemployed staff ? Less wages ?

How do you know who actually voted ? None of us do so it was a stupid comment (know the original offensive remark was not yours).
Making it a ‘class’ issue is just silly.

I do wonder on some people’s idea of democracy. I am allowed an opinion as much as you. You can disagree but that does not make me wrong.

@ThePure it’s a stupid argument but was a v offensive comment made originally about state educated doctors. Especially as you say most are pretty affluent and no real difference to public school ones.

PS no one has to read anything I write. That is a personal choice.

It is true I am assuming roughly proportionate participation in the strike ballot between state school and independent school educated doctors. But it need only be rough to make a good case that state school votes will have dominated the outcome.

Well you implied I don’t know the difference between causation and correlation.

You implied that many state school students have greater net wealth than me. With a gleeful emoji.

Both incorrect and, more to the point, completely unnecessary. Making them offensive