To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

[Locutus2000]

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

Please give me the data behind your facts. What proportion of doctors who voted for strike action went to state school ? No ? Don’t have them ? Maybe because they are all in your mind 😊.

Well, if you're as keen as you appear to drill down into data, possibly about time to:

1. Drill down into the numbers surrounding applications for training posts from UK medical graduates.
2. Drill down into just what percentage of resident doctors are actively keen on the proposed strikes.

Then possibly we can get rid of some of the nonsense which pervades these threads from certain quarters.

😂😂 go on then. Give me those figures. I’m v interested in seeing your drilling

The nonsense that this is all the poor people fault is laughable if wasn’t so sad. People who live in these little bubbles of wealthy others need to get out more.
PS both leaders of the BMA went to private schools. As did previous two.

We know that only 39.6% of resident doctors voted for strike action. You asked for this number earlier but did not acknowledge its provision.

What it means to actively support the strike is a subjective question, not a data driven one.

@poetryandwine but I’m now being told they are all the state educated ones ? Private school ones are above striking

The nonsense I'm referring to is the mahoosive distortion of numbers relating to training posts mumsneedwine, also the representation that all resident doctors are one homogenous mass in relation to the proposed strikes.

Again, facts ? Distortion of training numbers ? And no one has ever talked about a homogenous mass - everyone is an individual and makes up their own mind. That is not dependent on schooling.

Facts. Not conjecture.

Read the thread. The numbers for both things are not far back. On each and every thread you avoid engaging with numbers which don't marry up with your superficial ones. It's literally every single thread about resident doctors. You just won't accept what so many clearly numerically literate people are posting.

Sutton Trust statistics inform me that by 2021 79% of British medical students were educated at state schools. So inevitably by the numbers state school resident doctors are driving the strike.

However as of early this year only 5% of medical students identified as from a working class background, so the WC resident doctors do not have the numbers to be driving the strike.

Were the doctors strikes in 1975 and 2016 all the fault of those pesky state school kids too ?

Not engaging, this is ridiculous

So were the 2016 strikes all down to them too ? Or the ones in 1975.
I assume you know the difference between causation and correlation ?
Again, heads of BMA are privately educated.

No. My PhD in a maths-related discipline and subsequent research have been a result of confusion between correlation and causation.

The word hero should be used for rare and unexpected acts that go beyond and above the norm.

If that doesn’t describe some NHS staff during Covid I don’t know what does. ITU staff working 13 hour shifts with no break because there was a shortage of PPE, seeing all their patients leave in body bags and living in hotel rooms to protect their families - if that’s not heroism I don’t know what is. Some of them emerged with PTSD.

@Blossomtoes exactly. I don't have an issue with doctors playing it down and saying they were just doing their job during COVID. However, others who were most likely safely WFH passing judgement on where it sits on the totem pole of risking your life, that's quite a different matter.

A shocking comment! Interested in what is driving this opinion.

Ignorance. And arrogance I assume. Or just plain rudeness.

So even by your own metric not enough U.K. Drs actually applied to fill the jobs available without IMGs in 2024. We were 2000 short so we needed some of those IMGs. There were jobs available for all who applied and some to spare! Lack of jobs does not appear to be the issue so why is it being painted as though it is.

@ThePure I have never said we have enough UK doctors, never said IMGs are not needed. But UK trained staff should get priority. Anyone already in the NHS treated equally from today.

@ThePure check your maths. 25,000 people applying for 12,000 jobs does not leave any spare ones !

1,000 applicants from abroad within hours of job being posted. Job closes. NHS staff haven’t had time to look. Bots are being used - they are v open about it all.

I think my maths is fine. There were 12,000 training posts available and only 10,000 U.K. graduates applied. If IMGs were prevented from applying we would have been 2,000 short.

It was U.K. Drs not applying that was the main cause of them not getting a job. Over 50% of FY2s did not apply for a training post so how is that compatible with them all being desperate for jobs and facing unemployment. It doesn’t add up.

It seems to me that IMGs are coming in and taking the jobs that U.K. Drs are not applying for.

You won't get through.

To paraphrase Mumsneedwine - it's the fault of those pesky IMGs.