To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

[Locutus2000]

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

@BIossomtoesIbe just explained this! B plus North Sea oil money dwindled. Dream on - it wasn’t there and we didn’t spend it on defence either. We need to stop spending what we don’t earn. Our dc will be paying the price.

You haven’t explained anything. You’ve expressed an opinion which (as always) is different to mine. The money was there - debt increased, services were cut to the bone and tax revenue doubled - it’s perfectly legitimate to wonder where it went.

Once Labour were out last time and the coffers were empty due to their prolific spending, I remember that the aim was to reduce borrowing and try and pay down the national debt. Covid wrecked that obviously.

It was wrecked long before Covid. And once again the global financial crisis in 2007 is conveniently ignored and the economic effects on the UK are attributed to fantasy profligacy.

Steady increase in population
Steady increase in people claiming benefits

Steady increase in tax to the Treasury. It almost doubled.

I'm not excusing the Conservatives. They carried on Brown's big statism..Whereas we all know (really) that the state needs to do far less but better. As we learned at school, we need to roll back the frontiers of the state! Seems a long time ago that any politician had that aim, sadly.

They carried on Brown's big statism

You are joking, surely?

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/inequalities/2024/06/19/the-cost-of-austerity-how-spending-cuts-led-to-190000-excess-deaths/

Rather than a pay rise they need debt relief on their student debt. This will increase take home pay for the Drs; and can act as incentive to stay in thr NHS (as this could be linked to the debt relief). There may be a productivity gain which would support wider growth and reduce the costs of implementing this as a policy

Rather than a pay rise they need debt relief on their student debt. This will increase take home pay for the Drs; and can act as incentive to stay in thr NHS (as this could be linked to the debt relief). There may be a productivity gain which would support wider growth and reduce the costs of implementing this as a policy

No I'm not. There's been no proper retreat of the state for decades. Unfortunately.

I give up. Blind misinformed prejudice that persists in the face of evidence to the contrary. There’s no point in this.

I think when a few years ago they were moaning that it wasn't worth working once their pension pot got over £1m because of the tax they would have to pay, this is a bit rich. They may get paid better in other countries but they fail to mention that their huge pensions are basically additional pay, with a massive employer contribution. I hope the government doesn't roll over again. They had a massive pay rise last year. It seems like they are going to try it on every year after they won last time. There is an oversupply of graduate doctors who cant get jobs. The BMA, like many public sector unions now are completely unfit for purpose and have been completely taken over by Hard Left activists.

I think it’s just really hard to square the fact there were medicine graduates with sad faces in all the newspapers a few weeks ago who were complaining there were no NHS doctor jobs for them, with the idea that this is such an underpaid role that no one wants to do it.

Salary should be have some element of supply and demand to it. If it pays well, lots of people will want to do it and so you will attract the right candidates. If it doesn’t pay enough for the role, then no one would want to do it and so salaries need to increase to attract the right people.

I can’t believe that the role is underpaid and people are making news stories about how sad they are that they can’t get that role. Paying more will surely exacerbate this problem as more people will want to do it and therefore even more people will miss out on roles.

Now this I would support.

I would too. It’s an excellent idea.

Look. The main aim of Labour clearly is to squeeze as much out of the private sector to finance the public sector. Public services however are unlikely to improve as most of that private sector wealth is going on public sector triple lock pensions. That much is obvious. Historically the Tories are at fault here too.

Unfortunately the private sector is buckling under these demands and at some point will be unable to finance the state's.largesse.So either the private sector will need to grow (it is shrinking) and that is outside government control. (Apart from if RR does something helpful in the next budget like reducing Employers NI contributions etc) or the state sector will need to be reined in. Which is in the government's control. Unfortunately the state sector is Labour's client base. So they won't do anything useful.

I can't see where I'm being blind here?

It would also have the biggest impact for Dr's from poorer backgrounds; as they would have less access to family funds for studies and would have larger debts

@BIossomtoes Tbf you are also using as "evidence" a blog from someone from the Leftist Scool of Economics. So..

You claimed to have a PhD and that’s your reasoning 😳

Actually, I think everybody would agree with that

I agree that they ( and nurses, social workers, teachers) need debt relief on their student loans for as long as they work for the state. They also need better working conditions and not to have to pay for their training- its just public money going round in circles. But the BMA should be asking for this instead of trashing the reputation of doctors by asking for frankly ridiculous pay rises. Their pay rise from last year should have been accompanied by a lower employers pension contribution as it is.

Just now Physician Associate are paid more than doctors.
Despite being less trained, having less responsibilities etc etc….

If PA are worthy of that amount of money, why aren’t doctors worth more than that??

This is a good idea. Only with a long term commitment to the NHS, of course. I also agree with PP that student loans should be clawed back from those who leave but I am not sure how that can be enforced.

FWIW I supported the resident doctors’ pay quest last time; this time others are more worthy and in greater need.

@RedToothBrush implicitly made a great point earlier about the huge annual step rises in pay. F1 doctors are now on about £38K and the step rise to F2 is about £6K or over 15%. So it continues, until specialist Senior Registrars are on over £80K. I don’t begrudge this in the least. But this is not the year to threaten another round of strikes.

If you do relief on each year of the debt (rather than on the whole amount) then if someone leaves; they will still have the outstanding student debt liability if they choose to leave the NHS. It could also act proportionately if Dr's spend half their time in the NHS and half in private practice