To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

[Locutus2000]

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

Dr Melissa Ryan, one of the spokespersons for the resident doctors calling for strikes. She is all over the media

Thanks. It seems unlikely that F2s are being incredibly picky when the alternative is abandoning the profession. I assume the jobs being rejected aren’t of the same order as those high paying jobs in rural America, which are really profound service jobs in grim conditions? It speaks volumes that recruiters are forced overseas.

Then preferential treatment for British educated doctors in order to avoid wasting taxpayer money seems indicated.

@poetryandwine there are a lot of Dr Ryan’s

Not training posts but consultant posts in my unpopular specialty regularly attract no applicants despite being in a nice place to live so at that level we have to import IMGs

You really don’t like doctors do you 😂 @TizerorFizz. Picky ? No, unemployed. And yes. It’s a massive waste of tax payers money to not employ the staff we trained. Basic economics.

@ThePure I am now intrigued by your speciality. That no one wants to do it !

The Drs we are training don’t want to do the jobs that are needed unfortunately. Everyone wants to be a cardiologist or a surgeon in London noone wants to be an old psychiatrist in Preston or indeed a GP.

Psychiatry. No one has ever wanted to do it. It is very stigmatised. When I told my medical consultant that I was leaving the medical rotation and switching to psych he said ‘but why? You are quite intelligent!’ ie he thought only stupid people with no choice would do psych. When my mentor was training the generation above me she was told it was ‘a nice little job for a married lady’ ie easy and with no progression.

I don’t know any young doctor who wants to work in London, or be a surgeon or cardiologist. Most want to do Paeds, IMT, ED, Obs&Gynae or GP. Most don’t really care where they get a job, they’d just like one. I don’t know any F2 that got Paeds this year (I know 36 who applied). Didn’t have enough points as not spoken at an international conference. IMT similar, know a few who got the others. A few have got teaching jobs and 1 has a job working in a care home. Other than that, it’s the dole queue.

Dr Melissa Ryan is the only one mentioned on this thread. Specifically, I had said she was the one bragging in the post you then queried, asking me ‘who is bragging?’.

I don’t think making me reiterate this has helped you.

@ThePure my DD almost did psych- was her 2nd choice. She really enjoyed it and thought it was an amazing job.

Well that does seem a bit picky. Their research peers are not that demanding, and for less pay. London is full of great opportunities, for example.

@poetryandwineOKay. So kind of you to clarify. Again.

Far too many, unfortunately.

@poetryandwine ??? Picky ? There aren’t jobs in London either.

This doesn’t help

@Marchesman again, rude about other doctors. I thought consultants were supposed to support them. Weird not to. You don’t have to agree but can at least Be Kind (believe is the NHS saying).

I was responding to your statement that ‘I don’t know any young doctors who want to work in London’.

You were not discussing the availability of jobs. That’s a different story, but when you are training you go where the jobs are.

I do think the resident doctors have a point that more job stability would be a good thing all around

Because someone said all doctors want to work in London ? And I was disagreeing. It’s called a conversation. Comments follow on from each other.

I do agree with you there that it’s a bad look to take Drs from poor countries but I think most of the ones coming here are from India and Pakistan which don’t fit that bill. It can be actually helpful for Drs from developing countries to come for a limited period of training and go back because training in some specialties like psych is just not available on some countries. There used to be schemes like that. I had a good friend come from Indonesia on such a scheme Not sure if there are still.

Doctors do go where the jobs are. And move every 6 months because they have too. Don’t know any other job where for 7 years you are never in one place over a year.

@mumsneedwine I’ve met some fantastic doctors whom I greatly respect. I’ve also talked to some shockers! Trying to even get to talk to one on the elderly ward in a hospital when DM had received NO pain consultation in 6 weeks was a slog. Then she said she was going off duty in 10 mins and what did I want? Maybe communication after 6 weeks? Visitors are pm, doctors rounds am. We don’t meet! Just dreadful and I’d rather be dead than have to put up with that level of “care”. Catheter rammed in and no pain control for anything as they didn’t know what was wrong. So I take as I find. My eye surgeon was great but I paid. Elderly care - total uncaring pants! But no one wants to specialise in that do they? It shows. It’s enough to make you cry every day and if anyone offers me Switzerland I’m going! Don’t get very old!

I think other posters are telling you med grads are picky! Plus they still need training after 5 years. That costs the Trusts money. That’s the economics of it. They employ the already trained from overseas! That’s the economics of it too. What don’t you get about that? I don’t necessarily agree with it but doctors don’t want some specialisms and that is well known. It’s also well known medical degrees have increased with no thought given to further training yet students still want these places in multiples. Then they complain and complain and complain. I do hope the government sorts out training but no professional in this country earns as much as doctors or complains as much.

@ThePure can see a scheme like that that would be good. But what’s happening now is they come for the training for a few years and then go home. Which means we then have shortages as you can’t just magic up an ST3.

India has a shortage of doctors in rural areas. Should we be encouraging them to come here (BAPIO schemes are paid to recruit them).

Fascinating that @ThePure and @mumsneedwine have opposing views of the preferences of young doctors concerning London, surgery and cardiology.

I wonder how many actually have very strong views on their eventual specialisms? When I started PhD studies I was somewhat flexible; my love was for a broad area and to this day I believe I could have been equally happy specialising several areas within my discipline. .

Perhaps some F2s could be incentivised into specialisms of (changing) national need with loan forgiveness or enhanced loan forgiveness or something similar?

@TizerorFizz and you’ve beautifully shown that you have no idea how doctors work. We’ve all met bad ones, like we’ve met bad lawyers and bankers. So ?

Training continues throughout their careers, but they are doing a job too. Training is not sitting in a classroom, it’s doing the op, doing the ward rounds, doing the diagnosis.

And I know many many young doctors. None of them are picky, they’d just like a job. ‘Other posters’ are wrong.