To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

[Locutus2000]

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

Mumsneedwine does BMA soundbites not data.

It doesn't matter whether you pick fifteen months as the Times did, or five years. Medicine is the best paid degree (chart 5 below), and has the third best employment prospects (chart 4).

Data published 26 June this year.

explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/leo-graduate-and-postgraduate-outcomes/2022-23

@poetryandwine Yes Hesa does say that in the Times today.

I just think most ordinary tax payers feel they just pay taxes, higher than ever before, but doctors threaten strikes and get even more at the drop of a hat by threatening and even contribute to killing people. This degree is worthwhile. They nearly all get jobs (I know the blip this year) and it’s a very very decent pension paid for by my DD who’s self employed with no employer contribution at all. I feel, and lots of others feel, that we don’t like being held to ransom and have limited patience now. They should get what teachers, police and nurses get.

Where???

I am not a fan of PAs, but naproxen is not a Prescription Only Medicine.

So a non prescribing ANP is paid more than an ST2 during the day ? Why ???? The money is there, just not for doctors. FPH restoration means £22 for an F1 !

@poetryandwinein my DDs inbox. NZ offering even more ! But still be staying home for now.

The public who fund the NHS will not support putting the resources in until the NHS works better for them and/or their own lives improve.

This is true for the university sector too. Many students may feel that a degree is not essential and that the many apprenticeships available work better for them.

The public won't support the funding of universities or the bailing out of those in trouble. How should the government proceed on the issue of the funding of universities? How and which jobs in the university sector should be protected? Again all these issues are tricky to resolve. The difference however for the staff working within all other sectors and resident doctors working within the NHS is that for the doctors, their training opportunities are only available through a single employer, the NHS.

@Marchesman 😂 so BMA are liars are they ? Weird because most of the ‘soumbites’ are from government sources 🤷‍♀️

Ok, but she prescribed it. Is she allowed to?

@OneMorePiece as a teacher I think too many students go to Uni. Not a popular opinion, but for many it’s not ever been worth it. They were sold a bit of a lie. Not sure how we put the genie back though without massive changes - technicals colleges were fantastic (I am that old) ?

@MarchesmanPAs can not legally prescribe, it’s a criminal offence. As a consultant you must know that ????????

There are many improvements that could be made to increase efficiency that would cost no extra funding.

??

An American hospitalist is amongst the most highly paid specialisms. Generally hospital-based Consultants earn more than the plethora of non-hospital based specialists at Consultant level. Hospital based consultants in a couple of specialisms earn ovet $600-700K pa.

I may have quoted a low figure for Consultants in Internal Medicine, but $300K appears on the high side.

Anyway, what’s relevant here is resident doctor salaries. Remember that under 60% of IMG who apply even get a place, and many of those places have been rejected by American medical graduates. Neverthless here are a few easily verifiable salaries at the fiercely competitve top end:

In each case the lower salary is for a Y1 intern (F1) and the higher salary is for a final year Fellow (Senior Registrar)

Mass General: $82K - $115K. $10K uplift for Boston CoL

Mayo Clinic: $72,000-102,000.

Cleveland Clinic: $67,000 -87,000

UC San Fransisco: $92,000 -118,000 (Extremely high CoL city. Figures for cardiology)

University of Michigan: $77,000 - 105,000

Less elite:

West Virgina University: $60,000 -80,000
That’s the same starting salary as the UK and a considerably less attractive senior registrar one.

Many academics agree.

Please see my list of publicly quoted salaries above.

Or perhaps these are for highly undesirable jobs that cannot otherwise be filled. Americans are not immune to the power of the dollar, to say the least. So the need to recruit overseas is suss.

There is a catch somewhere. If you would like to pass along the information, people with knowledge of America can give some perspective on who is offering F2s more than the most senior Fellows at America’s - and some of the world’s - best teaching hospitals.

@mumsneedwine

As I said, naproxen is not a POM.

It has however been for you a useful diversion from the issue of doctors' lavish salaries and employment prospects.

Jobs are in Florida, Georgia and another state I can’t remember. All a bit red. Love to know how these recruiters get hold of their emails - almost like someone sells the mailing list 🤔. 2 years post qualification so not entry level. Few of her friends have already matched and earn a fortune - those are base salaries and their enhancements are massive ! Long days though but lovely teamwork and made to feel valued. And no one has to sit on the sharps bin.

@Marchesman 🤷‍♀️ NHS website says it is. But still a PA writing a prescription is breaking the law.

Your experience would have been exactly the same if you saw the SHO (or FY or CT1-3 Dr) They all have to get their work checked off by the consultant too.

I don’t think it’s PAs that are reducing training capacity TBH it’s rotas with a lot of time off and a more risk averse attitude to juniors taking decisions. I was thrown in the deep end to what, looking back now, was quite a scary degree and there is less appetite on both sides to do that now.

Many consultants have openly said they train their PAs over the doctors as they don’t move. They take theatre and clinic time while doctors are on wards. Doctors are ordered to sign prescriptions from PAs without seeing the patient (Derriford). Many consultants do prioritise the doctors but many don’t, hopefully this will now stop.

And wouldn’t have happened with any F2 or above. Who are cheaper.

How would the prescription be accepted if it was not signed by a prescriber then? Surely the pharmacy would reject it?

I don't know the ground is shifting. Lots of people, podiatrists, physios, nurses etc have acquired independent or supplementary prescribing rights. If PAs don't they will soon. Try complaining to the Trust.

It would though. Standard practice in outpatient clinics in medicine and surgery at least is for SHO (CT1-3) cases to be discussed with the consultant. Registrars consult independently but would you honestly be happy to see a Dr on their 1st day or week (or even month) in the job and take their word for a management plan? SHO level Drs might spend only 4-6 months in that speciality on a rotational training scheme so their work will need to be reviewed by the consultant to sign off a plan before the patient leaves the clinic. It’s always worked that way.

Many of us think the sector and individual universities are bloated. Some contraction and centralisation may be necessary. Possibly no university can be all things to all people anymore but we should not lose disciplines. We may need to distribute them around the country. But we need to be careful not to favour certain types of universities. There are pockets of real excellence well worth preserving in all sorts of places. My RG uni has a few programmes that are not of a suitable level, really, and are mainly cash cows.

I think a big problem is that many see a degree as a way into the middle class. It would be much easier to develop popular alternative pathways if they were accorded the same respect, socially. As it is I understand why people are proud that their DC is getting a degree in Hospitality Services or whatever.

Accountancy and a very few other apprenticeship pathways seem to be gaining social capital. I hope more will follow. Good builders, electricians, have my great respect.