Friend shouted at my 2 year old

[hmm01]

So I popped in to see my friend of 15 years today (we’re 30s now) with my 2 year old.

We were chatting and my 2yo was throwing a ball for her dog, then came to sit on my lap and was laughing and over excited about the dog and pulled my hair. This happens very rarely, slapping, biting or pulling hair when over excited and silly.

Before I had a chance to deal with it, my friend shouted so loud that it made me jump and my child burst into tears. She shouted “DO NOT TOUCH YOUR MUM LIKE THAT” she then went on a rant about how I need to do it back or they’ll keep doing it. We are not a shouty house, we don’t scream and shout at our child ever. We have a calm house so said child isn’t used to this. We explain why they are not to do it, show them how to touch gently and then we say “what do you say” and then we get a sorry and a cuddle and then move on from it. I think I was in shock that she shouted so loud at my child.

She has 3 older kids in their teens and to put it as bluntly but nicely as I can, they’ve all suffered as a result of her verbal abuse and I’ve seen her smack them (not hard but I had no children and I didn’t realise the impact in my early 20s) when they were younger and now she doesn’t have a nice relationship with any of them. They spend all their time in their bedrooms and she recently told me she booked a holiday with them and none of them want to go, they want to go and see their Dad for a couple of weeks instead while she goes alone.

I spent a lot of years helping her with them when their Dad left, I was there every morning to help get them ready for school, breakfast etc I did pick ups when I could, had them stay at mine for weeks during holidays so she could get a break and now I feel really angry that she spoke to my child like that. She isn’t their parent. I said “I’m going to shoot” straight after that and left and now I wish I’d of laid into her a little bit and told her to keep her nose out, it’s my child and I’ll speak to them how I see fit and I’m certainly not pulling their hair, biting or smacking them EVER.

How do I navigate this? I am also heavily pregnant and willing to be told that I’m upset over nothing here, my emotions are all over the place recently!

You're grand, you're the good parent not the ones belittling you. X

All teenagers disappear into their bedrooms, its not a sign of abuse, its a sign of wanting independence as they get older.

This made me laugh 😂

Your kid is out of control

Had to chuckle at this!
Just you wait!!!

I think you’re right. If you have made home a non (or very low) shouty environment then you wouldn’t attack it in others. I also have a friend who raised her kids in a shouty house (it was quite uncomfortable at times). They all hate her now and though they still see her they are quite open about it, even telling her to her face. Unfortunately she can’t see that it’s her doing and complains that they were difficult kids (they are actually lovely). They are much closer to their dad. (I’ve since become convinced she has strong narcissistic traits).

I don't think this is about your daughter really its about your friendship. Given what you say about how long you have been friends and the difficulties your friend has been through, I think it warrants more than just withdrawing from her. You say you have helped her with her family and you have observed her style of parenting is different from what you would do, have you ever had a conversation with her about that? If not I am wondering what made you take that approach?

In terms of this incident, you are obviously in disagreement with your friends approach to your child. If you don't talk to her how can she know how this has impacted on you and your view of the friendship. Give her the opportunity to hear your views and you hers, from there you can establish your boundaries on this topic and hopefully negotiate a way forward where you can respect one another's choices and still maintain your friendship.

This is a good piece, explaining why "gentle parenting" is doing your child a disservice. If you truly love your kids you will read it. If you just want to score points and pretend you believe I am abusive or do not know what gentle parenting means, you will ignore me or belittle me.

lawliberty dot org backlsash the-case-against-gentle-parenting backslash

This is interesting too:

www dot mother dot ly/life/motherly-stories/gentle-parenting-problem-essay/

Anyway, do as you please of course. Just know that the gentle parenting fad is on the way out. And that definitely doesn't mean I am in favour of abusing kids - even if you need to believe that.

One final point, yes I am aware that my friend had it hard raising 3 kids alone that’s why I stepped in and supported her, helped her whenever I could and I love those kids. Her partner leaving was a consequence of her doing something that should never be done in a relationship but I was there for her. I had police at my house to ask me to help search for her when she dropped the kids at school then didn’t return to pick them up and had disappeared for 48 hours, they stayed with me whilst we found her and got her the help she needed on more than one occasion. I also have depression and have been medicated since I was 15 for this, I know what it’s like which is why I’ve always tried my hardest to be there for her.

I never shouted at her kids, not even when I had them for weeks at a time during holidays.

I love my friend but maybe those of you that have said I should distance are correct, we are clearly 2 very different people and maybe this has come to light since I had children of my own.

Obviously.

@Blurrywateryeye So why should OP or any parent be her child's first bully? What to prepare her child to know what it feels like in the future?

I assume I’ll get narky responses from the gentle parent crowd but…

On the flip side, it’s really hard to be a friend to someone who is undertaking permissive parenting (not gentle, permissive is usually the way it plays out) and you’re trying to have a coffee whilst their child is being violent/aggressive and not listening.

I don’t shout or hit my own child but I am firm and wouldn’t continue to sit there whilst having my hair pulled and being hit. You don’t need to shout, simply putting them down or in a space to calm down works. I refuse to take a beating from my child and let’s be honest, most under 2s don’t have a clue what you’re on about when you’re explaining psychology to them at that moment.

Being around friends who keep spouting ‘gentle hands’ and ‘that’s not nice’ whilst their kids are feral has driven me to close off a lot of friendships.

What is permissive about me/DH giving a firm no and saying “we don’t hit/bite/pull hair because it’s unkind and hurts” we teach her to say sorry and then as long as she’s stopped whatever she is doing that is “naughty” we move on from it? I don’t smile sweetly at DD and tell her she’s a good girl after she hits me fgs. You clearly haven’t read any of my responses.

She shouldn't have shouted at your child, you shouldn't have judged and commented on her teenages, either you support each other or you don't.

OP your parenting style is similar to my own and I’ve brought two children up to adulthood who are lovely and wonderful people. They often tell me how glad they are that they were brought up in a calm home as so many of their friends have fractious relationships with their parents, caused by confrontational and shouty upbringings. My son says he seems to be the only one (including his gf) who loves coming back home from uni as it’s a haven away from the outside stresses. You and your dd will reap the benefits of a calm (with boundaries) home.

I agree with this.

I was at my dad’s house the other day with my kid and he checked with me that he could tell her off as she’s going through a boundary pushing phase. I appreciated him asking (especially in his own house, which is key for OP here who was in her friends house) and I think it does take a village.

But that village has to be on the same page as you with what is correct behaviour and how to discipline. Luckily my dad is so it works well. There’s no confusion for my kid then.

OP sounds very judgemental of her friend and my post above says that I had to close off some friendships due to differing parenting styles. Sometimes that’s what you have to do if it’s going to cause animosity.

This.

I’m just giving you a differing side to this coin.

I’ve been the friend next to another mother saying these things as their kid continues to hit them or play up. Some of us don’t have the patience for it and feel quite uncomfortable seeing a fellow mother being hit, bitten etc where the kid clearly isn’t listening. Sometimes we as mothers can’t see past our own children’s behaviour.

As you seem quite hostile to differing opinions, maybe you need to end the friendship.

Just I wait for what? To make sure my kids know that going to school is non negotiable and so is personal hygiene? That I will absolutely battle them over their school attendance if they think it’s okay to just not go to school? I’ve never once said I think having teenagers will be easy, I was one once but I know that my teenagers will be getting out of bed and to school without any negotiation.

You allowed a 2yr old to behave like that, so you’re being pathetic and precious.

Whilst I don’t agree with doing it back/hitting/shouting at them. You should easily be able to firmly tell them not to. At 2 they fully understand what they can get away with and with whom. (Guarantee they never even try to with her.)

I wouldn’t bother saying anything to the friend she’ll probably distance herself over your differences in parenting anyway or choose to only see you without the kids.

I don’t really understand why you came to this forum if you can’t take differing points of view.

If you wanted nothing but affirmation then why didn’t you go to the Gentle Parenting Reddit or something?

Fucking hell. Did you feel better making all that up?

Get a better hobby than trying to kick OPs in here to feel better about yourself. 😆

But DD didn’t continue to pull my hair after I told her no so your point is completely irrelevant.

I would be shocked if my friend did this too. Shouting at someone else's child is unacceptable in my opinion, unless you are trying to warn them of danger in an emergency. However, I have been in a situation with a child of an old friend who was permissibly parented (very different to gentle parenting where boundries are very clear if practiced properly) who hits her and if not stopped will problematic with other children. My friend does not intervene and this means I have had to, especially where other children might be upset. The first time was before I had children and I witnessed him hitting my friend repeatedly in the face. I was so upset to see my poor friend being hit. I did say to him, you are hurting mummy, stop, or something similar. Not shouting, but firm. I can sort of see where your friend is coming from, but she should not have shouted. I think you probably need to have a chat with here about it, but also reflect on ensuring you set firm boundaries with your child (if you do not already).

Without any negotiation 🤣