Friend shouted at my 2 year old

[hmm01]

So I popped in to see my friend of 15 years today (we’re 30s now) with my 2 year old.

We were chatting and my 2yo was throwing a ball for her dog, then came to sit on my lap and was laughing and over excited about the dog and pulled my hair. This happens very rarely, slapping, biting or pulling hair when over excited and silly.

Before I had a chance to deal with it, my friend shouted so loud that it made me jump and my child burst into tears. She shouted “DO NOT TOUCH YOUR MUM LIKE THAT” she then went on a rant about how I need to do it back or they’ll keep doing it. We are not a shouty house, we don’t scream and shout at our child ever. We have a calm house so said child isn’t used to this. We explain why they are not to do it, show them how to touch gently and then we say “what do you say” and then we get a sorry and a cuddle and then move on from it. I think I was in shock that she shouted so loud at my child.

She has 3 older kids in their teens and to put it as bluntly but nicely as I can, they’ve all suffered as a result of her verbal abuse and I’ve seen her smack them (not hard but I had no children and I didn’t realise the impact in my early 20s) when they were younger and now she doesn’t have a nice relationship with any of them. They spend all their time in their bedrooms and she recently told me she booked a holiday with them and none of them want to go, they want to go and see their Dad for a couple of weeks instead while she goes alone.

I spent a lot of years helping her with them when their Dad left, I was there every morning to help get them ready for school, breakfast etc I did pick ups when I could, had them stay at mine for weeks during holidays so she could get a break and now I feel really angry that she spoke to my child like that. She isn’t their parent. I said “I’m going to shoot” straight after that and left and now I wish I’d of laid into her a little bit and told her to keep her nose out, it’s my child and I’ll speak to them how I see fit and I’m certainly not pulling their hair, biting or smacking them EVER.

How do I navigate this? I am also heavily pregnant and willing to be told that I’m upset over nothing here, my emotions are all over the place recently!

What about small children who don't misbehave? Should they still be regularly shouted at to get them used to any shouty aggressive people they may encounter outside their home?

I love these threads where the OP doesn't get the required internet validation and so flounces off with a few parting shots for reassurance they won. Peak fora.

Do n’t worry, Op. some of us are intelligent enough to get the gist of what you were saying because we have all seen this scenario many times (not your friend shouting but the overexcited toddler going too far). I have always admired the mothers who exercise restraint. It is fantastic parenting. Some parents talk to their children rather than shout at them because they realise that they are too young to understand all their actions and have to be taught. You don’t go around pulling their hair because they pulled yours. I wonder if some of these people are just a bit jealous because they can’t control themselves - as you can tell from some of the posts. It is great to witness how you have withstood the pile-on. You are a good role model.

You’re mistaken. Who said I was on about the teachers? Children shout too no? Children can be bullies too, no?

You probably do a bit if your child is hitting you or pulling your hair, otherwise you'll end up with a real problem on your gentle hands.

As so often on MN I don’t quite see this the same way as others. When I first read this my immediate thought was that the friend was experiencing ptsd because to me her reaction is extreme. It is unsettling that many of you think her reaction is normal. It sounds as though the friend is not coping and needs help. Op couldn’t see this in the moment because she felt attacked and understandably upset. It is good that she didn’t react as things could have escalated. Troubling.

I doubt it. Do you have tangible proof of this. Research backed evidence?

So you're the boss and strict when it comes to teenagers complying but how do you think you arrive at the point where teenagers behave? It starts when they're 2 and pulling mummy's hair. It doesn't start when they're 14 and refusing to go to school one day.

I wouldn't be around her with my child again. I also wouldn't have continued a friendship in the first place with someone who hit their kids. It's illegal where I live, I'd have reported. I understand you may have felt conflicted if you wanted to try and have a relationship with the children for their sakes. Either way I wouldn't see her again, or if you do make sure it's when you don't have your children with you.

So you’ve criticised her parenting but don’t like it when she criticises yours? Also, wait until you DO have a teenager and then you’ll see just how silly your assertions are about how you’ll be with them.

She shouldn’t have shouted out when she saw your DC pull your hair out of ‘excitement’

I have never seen a child become violent with their parents due to excitement at all

Regardless of this incident, the way you’ve absolutely slated your friend and her troubles with her DC reveals a superiority judgey complex, you definitely feel better than her

You’re not her friend and are a precious pearl clutcher

Also, DD is in nursery, she’s heard kids shout, she is a normal 2 year old that tantrums and shouts occasionally, she’s experienced a firm “no” a few times from us at home when needed and doesn’t burst into tears. I expect she’ll also hear this when she misbehaves at school. I don’t know why so many people are confused that you can parent without shouting.

I'm with you on the not shouting. Just thought I would comment because you are getting flack for that.
It's counter productive with small children. Positive reinforcement and redirection is much more effective long term. What are we teaching children when we shout? If things don't go your way use aggression. Counter aggression with more aggression?
If staff at nursery or the childminder shouted at our kids we would be horrified, so why is it ok to do it ourselves?
I would not take my child round to that particular friends home again.

She said what I think when I see children behave like this with their parents and are told "gentle hands."

Just tell het to stop pulling hair. Other people will thank you.

So is yours? Have a fun day solving ya Paris crimes 🙄🙄 ✌🏻

This. I have a two year old and am reading a few books written by child psychologists about how best to discipline and put boundaries in place. Shouting simply isn’t appropriate for toddlers. A toddler doesn’t know how to behave, and has a very short memory and zero impulse control (because their brains are not physically developed enough!). Toddlers need to be shown how to behave, in a safe and secure environment, usually through play. You can’t frighten a two year old into doing what you want them to do, they won’t remember the action you want from them, just that you are scary and they don’t want to be around you!

You are upset because people made assumptions about your parenting, and yet you have just said "you can all keep shouting and screaming at your kids".

If you have an entrenched view, there is not much point on posting on AIBU, to be fair.

I think all those arguing with you are defensive as they shout at home! You’re doing great OP

And step back from the woman. You don't sound like a friend to her at this point.

I don’t think this incident is even about parenting styles - your friend just lost it/was completely unable to regulate her emotions and this time the target just happened to be your 2yo. You say she has a history of poor mental health and it sounds to me like she may be struggling. I’d give her a call and gently raise what happened as a way of opening up the conversation about how she’s doing. Regardless of whether you believe in shouting at children as a parenting tool or not (I don’t but I still do it sometimes because I’m human and I occasionally lose it generally when I’m stressed/overwhelmed) this reaction to some very normal 2yo behaviour seems completely disproportionate. A best friend will know your parenting style too and probably wouldn’t deliberately risk falling out with you. There’s something else going on.

For clarity, I too don't mean bellowing. My parents never shouted either, let alone smacked but by god, I knew if I'd stepped out of line. The face, the tone, the intent made it very clear.

No idea why people are judging your parenting. If it works for you and your child then that's all that matters. If I see another child doing something I don't like, I wait to see their parent's response, I wouldn't dream of jumping in myself, unless it was a safety matter. A bit rude of her, but other than an extra cuddle for LO, I'd move on.

We’re not a shouty house either nor are we precious.

I’d not be happy if my friend shouted like that either but I’d probably just make a mental note to myself to be more direct with her if she shouted again.

Although I brought mine up with minimal shouting (it’s impossible to never raise your voice, but there’s a difference between occasional raised voice and default shouting), I always had strong boundaries for bad behaviour, and hair pulling and biting would have got a firm (not shouty) no and a look that showed I meant it. I managed to bring up two well behaved, successfully launched kids alone so I have a lot of confidence in my parenting style.

Your friend was wrong to discipline your child in front of you , I don’t agree with that. However you sound quite annoying and smug in your post which comes across like boasting about how much of a better parent you are than your friend

But you aren't in control if your 2 year old thinks it's ok to yank your hair.