I give up with my 4yr old…

[Changeminds20]

I have a very sassy, clever, highly intelligent, stubborn, caring, kind (just turned ) 4yr old DD…..
she doesn’t eat much…. Even started saying she doesn’t like Ham/cheese, which she used to like. She is the fussiest eater not like me and her father who like most things.

My issue is bedtime…. It’s becoming relentless.
Routine for a young age, start routine around 7pm, usually takes her a while to calm down, we’ve tried lights, soft sleep playlists, magnesium tablets ( mighty kids) now using sleep butter on her feet ( sweet bee) we have a Yoto machine that plays stories, I’ve taken all her toys out her room, I’ve tried leaving her to self soothe, I’ve sat with her….. we’ve given her porridge before bed, literally feel like we’ve tried and are trying everything, she still won’t go to sleep before 9pm, she’s been awake when me and her father are also going to bed. Sometimes she comes into our room at 4/5am ish, so has broken sleep, sometimes she has to be woken up for nursery.

Nursery say she doesn’t eat much when there but she has so much energy and runs around, she’s comes home and doesn’t seem tired at all ( she does 8am-6pm)

She isn’t a child who falls asleep in the car even if it’s late, she’s really fights it.

People keep telling me once she starts school this sept she will tire herself out, is this true? Or so I just have a child whose brain can’t switch off.

She doesn’t have any ism and I don’t agree with labelling children so young with ADHD…( as I believe we are all on the spectrum line somewhere)

Have you tried just letting her fall asleep downstairs on the couch with you and then carrying her up? Id either do that or co-sleep as I think that would be less stressful all round?+

Hahahaha exactly. Plus working is what helps me have time out to be the best mum/wife I can do at home. It’s my safe space.

What a lovely read that was…. Got bored after the first word! 😴

My son is like this but he's 4 and was diagnosed with ASD at 3. I suspect he has ADHD given that his dad does. DS is wired, very energetic and even though he's tired still fights sleep. We have tried everything but stopped at tablets to help him sleep. I'm sorry I can't offer a solution. My son definitely needs more sleep, he just won't go to sleep.
Not everyone is on the spectrum. Please don't diminish what it means to be on the spectrum.

How do you find the mornings??? That’s the bit a dread? Knowing I have to wake and then be out the door for work. It kills me because I know she’s shattered and needs more sleep.

This child doesn’t sleep in a car, she won’t fall asleep in my arms on the sofa I’m afraid.

I’m no diminishing the spectrum I was just pointing out that I think everyone in on a spectrum…..

They're not.
Some people are autistic and a great many more are not.

As previous poster said not everyone is on the spectrum. You are completely wrong.

My daughter was like this at 4 years old, I even put her in day nursery one day a week hoping it would tire her out and give me a rest. I even went to my Drs and asked for something to make her sleep, I was desperate, I was told it was all down to routine and to stimulate them physically and mentally, I’d been doing this and was knackered.

Fast forward, she is now 29 and in a months time has her assessment for ADHD, she was also diagnosed with dyslexia at 16. The ADHD was picked up by her psychiatrist who has diagnosed complex PTSD due to medical trauma. So all those years of her being a bloody nightmare, and don’t get me started about the teenage years, was mainly due to undiagnosed ADHD.

You could get a private diagnosis, we pay privately for the psychiatrist, waiting for mental health treatment in the NHS was far too long.

In girls ADHD isn’t picked up as much as boys, my daughter was described by school as an emotional, hormonal teenager, not helpful.

Today there is so much more knowledge and the internet, in 1999 I didn’t have that luxury.

Mine was like that (though did always eat well), but we never worried about bed times, just got him ready for bed after dinner and let him do what he wanted, downstairs with us, until he fell asleep, then carried upstairs. It worked for us, no hassle, but we never cared much about having child-free evenings and that sort of thing which I know is important to some parents.

That’s a very long day at nursery..

There is so much going on it boggled me so our youngest are twin 3s and a 4 and bedtime is 6:30 and they wake around 8:30-9am...No lights,noises. They have no day naps,plenty of exercise in the garden and walks we do. No sugar after teatime pudding and they each have 1 Weetabix around 6pm before bath,jamas bed and a quick story. They get tucked in with there cuddle bears and blankey and they know once we say goodnight that's if for the night. Yes we will occasionally here them chattering to each other but they dont get out of bed always taught when mummy and daddy say bedtime it means bedtime. Oh and I forgot they get to take 1 cup of milk or water to bed aswell incase they get thirsty. Did the same with our older kids and worked the same. Aslong as you make it clear and stick to your decision it will soon work

I think this is great advice.

It sounds like you just need to get your child into a proper routine.

Also putting some firm boundaries in, such as no getting out of bed once you've said goodnight.

How much screen time is your child having?

Feeding your child a wide range of healthy food from different food groups should help too.

Also, just check that your child isn't picking up on your anxiety about bedtime.

Also, have you tried a parenting course?

First thought would have been later bed times, but if she is knackered in the mornings, as you describe, then that is a no-go.

So in that case, I'd go basic. try and wear her out even more than she already is. This needs to be both mental and physical. Increase the physical exercise (proper exercise) she is doing when with you, and then before bed add in something that will get her a bit more mentally exhausted, puzzles, math's, phonics, practice writing etc.

Just from my observations, I've noticed that children in nursery are usually mentally exhausted, but sometimes haven't been given enough physical activity.. equally kids at home are often physically tired after bouncing off the walls/playing so much, but aren't mentally tired. It is amazing how long a child can play for, and how quickly they get tired when they actually need to properly think about something.

So that would be my personal next step. Increase both physical and mental "exercise" and see if it has any impact.

Please don't go down that route!!! There are all kinds of problems with melatonin - and giving kids drugs without a prescription/sign off from the doctor is a bad idea. I know of a number of parents/kids who have ended up seriously regretting the melatonin route. Please do NOT do it.

Seems to me that this kiddo needs to be tired out more before bed. And one activity that is guaranteed to tire kids out is swimming. Take her swimming to lessons with a teacher - that way she's being taught and actually swimming (and you can read a book and have some downtime while watching her). The upside to swimming is that it may well make her hungry too. Other activities that tire them out seem to be stuff like trampoline club (I personally loathe trampolines - too many potential injuries - but trampoline clubs often put them in a harness so they are more controlled). If you can't afford extra classes or lessons then go on walks, or bike rides, or to the local park that has a climbing frame etc. Make it fun for her to run around and climb all over the equipment etc.

If she's smart then start doing more than just reading with her: get her writing/doing logic games/learning how to do stuff that is mentally taxing. If she's over stimulated then avoid things like competitive games or agitated music/TV etc. Opt for baths rather than showers before bed. Ideally she will be reading herself soon - which means you can leave her with lots of books to read in bed if she is bored/can't sleep - at the moment you can leave her with picture books.

Some children can be fidgety/anxious etc if they have growing pains - you can get things like foot rollers etc so she can have a useful fidgeting option.

I would caution against allowing her to stay up late - at that age they need a lot of sleep. I would also caution against giving her whatever she wants to eat just because she's picky: she needs to have a balanced diet - too much sugar/salt/junk will also make her less able to regulate herself, and will cause sugar highs/crashes that make sleep difficult. If she really won't eat then ask the GP for help and a referral to a specialist to help.

To be fair, you didn’t say in your post OP that she only goes 2 days a week. You were describing her routine so understandable everyone thought you meant 8am to 6pm five days a week

Of course she won't go to sleep when she only has an hour of an evening. She needs time to adjust, to spend time with you, with her things and to wind down. Cut the nursery down to 4 pm and you can expect a child to be ready for bed by 7 or move the bedtime. It is a little concerning that you haven't thought of this and have jumped straight to neurodiverse.

One of mine is like this school didn’t make a difference he didn’t struggle with reception tiredness or stroppyness just powered though going to sleep 11pm up at 7.30 often awake and getting in with us in the night. He’s also very bright just reads once he has been put to bed. She has books and story box leave her to it they don’t just switch off but now she’s 4 you don’t have to sit there for hours I used to read a few books 3 mostly then it was rest Time.

What boarding school takes 4 year olds? Do you have their phone number?

Passive aggressive much

She sounds very much like my DD, also dropped naps by 18 months, always struggled to get her down for any kind of nap/sleep. She can’t switch off at bedtime, didn’t sleep through until after five years old (probably second term of reception is when she started sleeping through). Honestly just later bedtimes, mine needed less than ten hours sleep, she still fought it of course.

Mines also quite bright (she’s doing work from the end of the year above, so it’s not just me being her mum making me say it). She’s completely NT (I badgered her teachers about this and they all said I was being stupid). Very physically active, 6 hours of sports a week outside of school plus lots of general running around. Mines fallen asleep in the car precisely once (she’s 6 so plenty of opportunities to). She is also never tired, she loves her food though.

I think this is just who she is tbh. Some kids are just like this. We’ve tried different things and nothing really works so we’ve just accepted it.

Actually if she does have a lot of energy and likes to throw herself about a lot and seems to seek out a lot of body contact (does she drape herself on you or try to burrow into people with her head?) that can be a sensory thing where they are seeking deep pressure type touch.

A weighted blanket could help (check the safety on it for her age, though, as they can carry a risk of suffocation for young children) or giving her a very firm before-bed massage - if you look up "deep pressure massage child bedtime" there are some videos which demonstrate it well. There is one I don't know if there's a video of it, but there's one where you "make brownies" on their back which is a lovely wind down routine.

Thank you for this honest comment, I really appreciate it. I only mentioned the ADHD thing because I knew people would jump on it with my post. As fair as I’m concerned she is too young to be putting a label on her but that doesn’t mean to say I won’t be open minded as we go through the school years.