I give up with my 4yr old…

[Changeminds20]

I have a very sassy, clever, highly intelligent, stubborn, caring, kind (just turned ) 4yr old DD…..
she doesn’t eat much…. Even started saying she doesn’t like Ham/cheese, which she used to like. She is the fussiest eater not like me and her father who like most things.

My issue is bedtime…. It’s becoming relentless.
Routine for a young age, start routine around 7pm, usually takes her a while to calm down, we’ve tried lights, soft sleep playlists, magnesium tablets ( mighty kids) now using sleep butter on her feet ( sweet bee) we have a Yoto machine that plays stories, I’ve taken all her toys out her room, I’ve tried leaving her to self soothe, I’ve sat with her….. we’ve given her porridge before bed, literally feel like we’ve tried and are trying everything, she still won’t go to sleep before 9pm, she’s been awake when me and her father are also going to bed. Sometimes she comes into our room at 4/5am ish, so has broken sleep, sometimes she has to be woken up for nursery.

Nursery say she doesn’t eat much when there but she has so much energy and runs around, she’s comes home and doesn’t seem tired at all ( she does 8am-6pm)

She isn’t a child who falls asleep in the car even if it’s late, she’s really fights it.

People keep telling me once she starts school this sept she will tire herself out, is this true? Or so I just have a child whose brain can’t switch off.

She doesn’t have any ism and I don’t agree with labelling children so young with ADHD…( as I believe we are all on the spectrum line somewhere)

Yep! My DD was like this every night was a battle. Gave in and bought a double bed and slept in it with her. End of sleep deprivation right there. She’s now 16 and sleeps like a log!

Yep.

And once she's in her bed, say goodnight and leave her to it.

Mine has never needed the recommended amount of sleep either, and neither have I - no ASD or any other issues, just the way we're built!

Starting school did have a slight impact and I was able to bring bedtime forward by half an hour. Now she's in juniors, I've noticed greater disparity in her peers' bedtimes and whilst shes still one of the later ones, the difference isn't much any more as her bedtime hasn't really got much later than it was in the first place!

It's really hard getting no evening but I'm resigned to it!

Care to explain?

My dd is 4 in September and we are just coming out of a very bad sleep phase. Not settling down, very hyper etc (think 10pm+)
What seems to have worked is not taking her to bed at 7 and no screen time 2 hrs before and introducing bedtime Tonies. We take her up 7.20-7.30, read 2 stories in bed, she sprays her sleep spray on her pillow and we put a Tonies on. She has been asleep by 8-.8-15. It's a phase, hang in there

Exactly.

the child is in nursery much longer than a school day, is seeing parents for perhaps an hour then resisting bed. School won’t change that.

Medication is not the answer at this stage, the child is asking for comfort. Why is that not being presented as an option?

eg I tried cosleeping and it didn’t work.

said much more clearly and eloquently what I wanted to say 👏👏👏

cosleeping doesn’t work for us either, but working on the relationship does

I have/ had a child like this, in fact I think I’ve posted about him under a different username. I didn’t find that school tired him out in a way people would say. However what I would say is that he’s just turned 5 and I’ve genuinely started to notice some small improvements, still a long way to go but it just feel like we’re coming to the end of a difficult phase, albeit a bloody long phase.

Why have children if you’re just going to farm them out to nursery all day! Might as well Just send her to boarding school for all the time you spend with her! then they can take over the problem!

See posts like this are just nasty and not helpful at all.

Dd was like this. Never needed that much sleep. Fought it. Could be awake at 10/11pm still fighting it. Drove us to distraction. It got better when she went to school and especially after she learned to read. Once she could read paperbacks that seemed to help her nod off.

My dd's sleep was awful at that age. We did get prescribed melatonin, but it didn't do that much. We ended up paying a sleep consultant and with her support we did something called "bedtime tokens". It's essentially bribery. Sit with child to get them to make sleep rules - draw them into a book or something. This gives them some ownership. Keep book by bed. Then make sleep tokens. Loads. Ok to get mum/dad up, but costs a token. If they have tokens left in morning, they get a reward. Reward needs to be high value - we split up a Playmobil set and made a tombola from it. Obviously DD wanted the people and the van but sometimes just got a fork! We wrote all the pieces on slips of paper to draw from a hat. Make more tokens than they need so you set them up for success at first! Put tokens by bed. DD used 32 the first night. Then when they're in the swing of it you gradually reduce the numbers of tokens available. This did work for us in the end, it took 6 weeks. Completely worth it. We also found a weighted blanket helped. Good luck.

I typically put my 4YO to bed at 8pm. At 7 he wouldn’t be tired and would fight bedtimes, or if did go to sleep quickly he’d be up at 5/5.30. And like most 4YOs he’s stubborn so bedtime has to be on his terms. Tonight he wasn’t tired apparently so I said he could look at his books or play quietly, gave him a kiss goodnight and left. Checked on him at 9 and he was fast asleep with a stack if books next to him. His older sister was/still is the same and has to put herself to bed.

I think some of the things you’ve tried so far sound quiet overstimulating/clearly haven’t worked for her so I’d try giving her the toys back that aren’t too noisy/stimulating and also making sure she has lots of picture books she can do herself. Take her up a bit later and then leave her to it but insist she mist stay in her room. Worth a try anyway! If that doesn’t work then I’d consider the melatonin but would want someone I trust to get it from CVS or similar when they’re in the US. I wouldn’t trust random websites.

every highly intelligent child ive known has needed much less sleep that their peers.

Could you make a reading corner in her room with. bean bag and she settles there looking at books for 30 minutes at 8.15pm before you go back up and read her a story and get her into bed

Hear hear!

I felt exactly the same on reading that last paragraph.

Therefore, I'm not going to suggest the 30+ things that we tried on my (then) 8 year old when their sleep time crept up from 9pm every night until it ended up being 2am, every single night. 5 hours sleep later and I could not get my child up for school and had to dress them while they were fast asleep.

So, OP, crack on and try multiple different things and see how well they work...

In a few years time perhaps you'll have a lightbulb moment?

BTW...you give your child melatonin as people have recommended (which is unlicenced in the UK for under 18s) and you will have social services crawling all over you if any professional finds out and reports it to your MASH team.

Melatonin can only be prescribed by a paediatrician in the UK for under 18s. And clearly you won't need a paediatrician because you don't believe in the 'isms' and 'we're all on the spectrum somewhere'.

Good luck (cause you're gonna need it!)

😂😂😂😂😂😂

which century are you presiding in?

Probably not what you want to hear but I had the same with my now 7 year old and I nearly broke both of us trying to get him to sleep. Just like you I tried everything. I just accepted that I can't force him to fall asleep if he's not tired and that's it. We have a late tea around 6/7 then it's all screens off, plenty of exersize in the day late afternoon but absolutely none in the hour or 2 before bed as that makes it worse. We then do a relaxing activity such as puzzles/board game (no exciting ones) wordsearches colouring etc then it's bath time and he has a big bowl of cereal and milk then straight to bed with stories at 9/9.30. I know it's late and it's mentally draining having no me time but he's usually off by 10 now and I give myself an hour to do just what I want. He used to be up way later or if I put him to bed any earlier he'd be causing havoc making me more stressed. Itbis a bit earlier in the shmmer and hes gotten alot calmer since taking up a sport. Luckily im single so i dont have that aspect to worry about. You have my sympathies OP and do let me know if you find anything!

Because most families need two salaries to have enough money to live.

OP your little one is spending a long day in nursery and probably just needs to spend more time with you in the evening. I would have tea, bath and quiet games together until 8, then make sure she's had a wee and has a drink of water, read a couple of stories and lights out. You don't need a long drawn out bedtime routine but a period of quiet time and winding down before bed is good for both of you. Maybe just lie down with her in bed and chat about her day. It sounds like she needs you to be close so she feels safe and secure.

My teenagers are still like this, bedtime is a nightmare for different reasons (messing around, arguing etc) so no advice here unfortunately.

DS has always been like this. He’s never gone to bed early.
He has dinner with us & goes to bed at the same time as me.
Loves company, has bags of energy. He’ll just keep going!

4year olds need 10-13hrs total sleep so as long as she's getting this, you may just need to set her bedtime at the time that she is actually tired, or alternatively try and shift her bedtime earlier by waking for the day earlier and hoping it shifts the whole day. My 2.5yo doesn't go to sleep at 7pm, some kids just need less, it's hard but you can't make them sleep more than they need

Does she sleep at the night? We struggled with our son's bedtime and he didn't sleep full night until 5 years old. Diagnosed with ADHD at 6.

I have a four year old like this too, also due to start school in September. This week we have tried waking an hour earlier (as we’ll need to do this for when school starts) in the hope it will shift bed time earlier too. We’re about 5 days in and bed time hasn’t changed yet (still 8.30-9pm) but he’s getting an hour less each night and is grumpy from that. Haha, not ideal! Following out of interest.

Some people just need less sleep because that is how they are made. Don't drug her up!