To think women taking their husband’s name doesn’t have to be sexist?

[RealNavyEagle]

I know it’s a traditional thing and some people see it as outdated or patriarchal but I actually think there’s something quite nice about a whole family sharing the same name. It doesn’t feel like “losing my identity” to me, just part of building a shared one.

AIBU to think it’s not automatically a regressive choice and that it can just be a personal one?

I will never ever forget sitting in a bank for some boring reason at the age of 22. I bumped into one of my clients. She was this absolutely brilliant women who had the most incredible career and was quite "famous" in my industry. I won't lie, she was everything I aspired to.

She was there with her husband.

And I had my eyes opened... they were there, becuase she was seeking something from the bank and as they were married HE had to sign too. I couldn't believe it. That was in South Africa in 1998 and I think it did change soon after but MAN, it was a shock.

It's called a nuanced discussion. Not everything is all bad or all good, there are shades of grey. I agree with women being financially protected with a legal contract, I don't agree with the misogyny that has accompanied marriage for centuries.

I wish I had double barrelled our names or at least double barrelled the boys names. My maiden is probably going to die with my brother's as my youngest brother and his wife don't want kids and my eldest brother only has one son that I don't think is going to carry on our name.

Yes and changing surnames seems to be a grey area.

I don't really understand this. @MiloMinderbinder925 is simply pointing out that there are loads of very sexist things associated with marriage and weddings in particular. And we'd be fools if we didn't acknowledge it. Doesn't mean we can't still wear white/get our dads to walk us down the aisle etc etc, but it would be ridiculous not to ackowledge how silly and misogynist these traditions are, or where they came from?

I just remembered another one from my "surprising push back when I didn't change my name". I had to make a very firm statement to the DJ or whoever it was at our reception - we were NOT coming in as "Ladies and Gentlement, I present - Mr and Mrs DH Name".

Very interesting. I'm going to start paying more notice.
I do wonder if people get caught up in changing their names when they get married (I did consider it but the main reason was because professionally I wanted to keep my name as I had built my career with that) and if they waited for a few years, then they might not bother. The longer time goes, the more pleased I am that I kept my name, and I am 'me'.
One thing that I do find a bit odd, is people who get divorced and then change their name to second or even third husbands name.

No, it's an example of the misogyny that has accompanied marriage for centuries. As explained a few times, it's part of the legacy of the Law of Coverture.

I guess I dont understand the picking and choosing what you deem sexist given they both seem to have been very sexist traditions in the past.

They're ALL sexist. These traditions are ALL bsaed in misogyny. But I personally believe that if I choose to stick with one or some or all of these traditions, that's my right. I'd just be a fool if I don't understand that they are intrinsically based on a deeply flawed system.

And I'm thrilled that being married genuinely DOES do more to protect women today than it did in the past. Previously it was just taking everything away - rights, property, bodily autonomy. So YAY that it's changing and that as an institution or social and legal contract it's becoming BETTER. I don't think being married is intrinsically sexist or misogynist anymore, but the bits that go with it are still often based on those sexist or misogynist "norms" of the past.

I know quite a few women who started out keeping it for work, but said they'd be more flexible for non-work... and over time, it just becomes too difficult to have two names and they defalt back to one. Usually the married one. The final step usually happens at the point at which they change job.

Good that you view them all the same and also appreciate times have changed. A woman choosing to take her partner's surname is completely different to days gone by when it wasnt a choice.

The principle is the same. A woman's identity subsumed within her husband's. People tend to capitulate to the norms of society. For example, would you go to the beach without shaving?

This marriage thing.

It protects women who have fewer assets than their partners and / or where they give up or compromise their own economic status to take on a greater share of childcare.

It does not protect women who have their own property and an income greater than their partner. Not in most cases.

It is a legal and financial partnership that each woman needs to weigh up for herself.

And it can be set up as a non sexist, non patriarchal contract.

It can be accomplished with none of the traditional cultural trappings of a wedding ceremony.

’Traditional’ wedding ceremonies are, however, steeped in traditions rooted in sexism and patriarchy.

Any woman’s choice to walk down the aisle with her male parent as a vicar says ‘who gives this woman…’, have men, groom, best man, brides make parent, make speeches while women stay silent, and so on and so on.

All fine, people like tradition and are attached to cultural customs. Free choice.

But you can’t pretend that the origins and symbolism and different roles of men and women in these traditions don’t exist.

Would I go to the beach without shaving, my legs I presume you mean, no probably not.

Good that you view them all the same and also appreciate times have changed. A woman choosing to take her partner's surname is completely different to days gone by when it wasnt a choice.

But how did things evolve to become a choice?

By women questioning things and shaking up the status quo.

A bit of critical thinking is never a bad tbh g, surely? Looking at cause and effect, looking at how our choices are really made .

MN is littered with posts by women whose DH’s ‘refused to allow’ them to give their children even hyphenated names to include the woman’s name. ILs who refuse to acknowledge a woman’s surname. The instant assumption of ‘the new Mrs Hisname’ of much wedding tat. It’s all cultural pressure that makes free choice harder.

A woman taking her partner's surname today is a choice, but let's be honest, that "choice" is more on paper. In most cases, it's an automatic assumptiona nd many many women are convinced it's a choice they make in a vacuum when it's not. It's a choice based on a hugely sexist institution.

Just like me choosing to let my children have DH's surname is a choice. But I'm not going to deny that it is intrinsically a choice I made that is a sexist one. the default assumption is his name. By me agreeing to that, I am perpetuating that stereotype. I accept that.

I know no one like this. One friend changed it for one job, but then ended up changing it back (I'm assuming legally it's the husbands name now). I really don't understand why you'd change it in the workplace unless you're very young and new in your career, as surely you've built x years being known by that name, that really does seem like throwing your career away too. Again, might be different in other industries, but I often get approached with do you know "so and so",

So you can see why people do things that are considered 'traditional' without thinking.

Yes of course it's good when women stand up for what they believe in. But that shouldnt erode away other women's choices and feelings. Dont let a man dictate to you but also dont let women do that to you either. For example its great women have careers now but if I wanted to be a wife and mother and shun the career world I shouldnt feel bad about that or have it labelled sexist. Unwise and risky it might be of course.

Doesn't that make it worse?

I would argue leg shaving is not traditional 😆

But anyway I dont think that's comparable.

Does what make what worse?

It's a social norm, something women do because it's expected.

God, I wish I knew you and your colleagues and friends in real life!

I do feel alone with my "Not taking DH's name" in my little corner of Surrey!

Ok yes. But it's not expected anymore for women to just automatically and without thinking take a new surname.