Termination of pregnancies - too willing to terminate, maybe there are other choices?

[Ilovepastafortea]

I have trouble with the issue of terminating pregnancies.

For context I had 5 miscarriages & 1 baby born 'sleeping' at 29 weeks.

Also 2 of my (3) husbands were adopted-well DH's mother was adopted in the 1920's. The point is if abortion was available in 1963 & 1926 neither of them would have existed. Their childless mothers wouldn't have had babies to love & care for.

If my first husband had been aborted my lovely son wouldn't exist. He killed himself at the age of 32 leaving me with a baby. But at least I had my baby which was part of him.

If my DH's mother had been aborted my 3 lovely step children & 7 gorgeous grandchildren wouldn't be here. Both of my step sons served in the Royal Navy - one in special forces & got his Green (Marine) beret. My Step daughter is a nurse & worked in A&E for many years, is now a Matron. She has saved many lives & made a difference to many other people's lives including taking unpaid leave to be there when her grandmother was dying.

But then I understand why some people do it.

I can particularly understand it if the woman has been abused or raped - who would want to bring their abuser's or rapist's child into the world. I get that.

I just wish that they would think about having their unwanted baby adopted so that someone who can't have a baby can love & care for it.

My heart goes out to those with an unwanted pregnancy & facing this.

I don't know what I'd do to be honest.

I have no doubt that most women terminate a pregnancy after much heart searching & grief. However, I also hear about women who are terminating their 3rd or more pregnancies & using it as a method of birth control.

So brings me around to AIBU to ask if people terminate a pregnancy number 3 or 4 are being unreasonable?

Or not.

Just canvassing opinions.

Once again, adoption is not a substitute for abortion. Not at all. All pregnancies are life threatening - every last one. Yes, even in the west and even with healthy people and great medical care women sometimes still die in labout.

The woman must agree to take the small but extremely real risk that she might die when she decides to get and stay pregnant. Giving birth changes your body forever, no matter how much money or care you have. And then there is a human being walking around with your DNA which you didn't want to exist, which causes all kinds of complications.

Every woman who has ever had an abortion was well aware of adoption. Adoption is a separate and unrelated issue to abortion.

Before 29 weeks the sane and safe option for women is to allow abortion, not try to force anyone into the adoption pipeline. After 29 weeks, if the woman's life is in genuine peril or the baby is going to be born missing large parts of its brain and skull - just one of the late term congenital abnormalities that can occur - or has other life threatening abnormalities it is also the sane, kind and safer option to allow abortion.

www dot nbcnews dot com backlash news backslash us-news backslash nursing-influencer-hailey-okula-died-rare-complication-childbirth-husb-rcna199703

Are there many women using abortion as a form of contraception?
I can look up the data tomorrow, but I shouldn't think so.

If people were logical, I would agree with this entirely, but I do agree with most of it. However, I do think people can be moved to care about a woman who has been raped and consider her suffering to be the greater issue, even if generally they are opposed to abortion. I might be wrong.

Who are you accusing of doing this? Where was there name-calling, all caps yelling, and an attempt to silence anyone?
Are you referring to the fact that one of your posts seems to have been deleted by MN? This is the alleged silencing?

If I write directly about the person who had two of my posts deleted for responding to their insults, they will only have this one deleted too, hence I did not name them or respond to it directly.

Also, I am serious in my confusion at what they are trying to achieve, and would like to know the motivations behind it, but I realise that is unlikely to happen.

Edited as my response is now irrelevant.

Oh, okay. Yes, it's annoying when people insult you, then report you for striking back. The best thing to do is stop talking to them altogether. They're looking for a way to get back at you and responding to their insults in kind gives them just that. I suspect it frustrates them most if you continue to be polite or simply ignore them.
You spoke if multiple women so I thought you were accusing multiple women. My apologies.

You have a rose tinted view of adoption. Care experienced children are significantly more likely to experience mental illness, enter the forensic system, etc. All adoption stems from trauma. All adopted children face questions about their identity, and have the experience of being removed from their birth family and having no one around who looks like them.

Adoption is also traumatic for birth parents. Do you think it's easy to give up a baby?

People are only pro-life until the baby is here. No one thinks about what life will be like for a foster child who can't find an adopter, or a baby growing up resented by its mother.

Of course not.

Talk about tropes.

I just figured they included them and any others who are of that ilk and was not pointing any fingers they could report me for :)

I am really not ok with allowing people who are insulting and childish to get the last word so easily, and my reaction is always to respond to them - not saying that's the logical or useful response, just my honest reaction.

Though if they do it again I will let it go this time as it's not worth the head space and I know they will have read my response now and am satisfied with that :)

I'll certainly allow that it's possible, even probable. However, decades of participating in abortion debates has led me to conclude it is not common. It's usually punitive.

Understood. Just be aware that if you get enough complaints lodged against you, MN will give you a temporary ban, then a permanent one if there are more complaints. That's why I think it's best to let them have the bloody last word if it means that much to them. I feel that abusive posters deserve to be insulted right back, but MN does not agree, so I usually just stop responding to them.

Fair enough, and thanks.

I think the 'if the baby had been aborted' argument doesn't really stand, as you could have said the same thing as
'If they'd useda condom that month' or 'if she'd had her period and got pregnant the next month instead'

Women have thousands of eggs and men make millions or billions of sperm. The potential babies that we don't meet are infinite.

It's unreasonable to expect another woman to incubate a baby for other people who adopt. Just like I wouldn't expect you to cut out one of your kidneys and place your health at risk just because someone out there really needs one.

And even if the guy was charged by the time the case got to court to get a conviction there would be a born baby.

It’s None of your beeswax.

You have every right to your opinion @Ilovepastafortea
Fortunately in the UK the law respects bodily autonomy, which I think is superior to the rights of human dna in the form of an embryo. The fact that you think otherwise is ok. But the law can and should never prioritise the rights of cell clusters over a full grown human.

its non of my business what woman do with their body. I would imagine it not be a very easy decision for any woman to make and for them they have no other options available to them, pregnancy and birth are extremely hard to do and no one should be expected to do it against their will. I couldnt imagine any woman using abortion as a birth control, it would be a very hard toll on that woman's body to do over and over again and can also affect their future fertility. I think we all need to stay in our own lanes and worry about the decisions of our own bodies and choose the right decisions for ourselves. My mother was also adopted and so was her brother, they came from the same mum and dad and were homed in the same home together when they were born. my mum had 5 children , 2 of them were given to their father and she had 2 abortions so 7 pregnancies. in all honesty my mother showed those early pregnancies some mercy and it was the right thing to do because those children would have been raised like us without their fathers, in an abusive and violent home, full of drugs and and alcohol, they would have been 2 more damaged humans in the world that may have gone through hell and repeated history. We dont know how far the ripples go but if a woman goes through an abortion it isnt because she is being selfish she knows at that specific time in her life, she cant raise baby, she would do more damage then good not only too herself mentally and physically but also the future of that child.

It is a decision nobody should ever make but the pregnant woman, and she does not ever have to justify her decision to anyone, whether it’s her first or fifteenth termination. Everyone who becomes pregnant has their own unique set of circumstances and needs to do what is right for them and them only. To imply wrongdoing for choosing termination because someone else somewhere sadly wanted children and couldn’t have them makes no sense whatsoever and is disgusting.

The word 'nuance' is also a trope: one frequently used to imply that those on the opposing side of the discussion are incapable of sizing up many sides of a situation or recognising all the moral complexities and shades of gray. It's a subtle way of suggesting that the 'nuanced' person possesses more criticality (and by implication, intelligence) than the person with whom they're disagreeing.

It's unfortunate for those people that there is no moral quagmire here. It's one of those rare situations that is straight black and white.

Either you believe in women's humanity, and their autonomy over what happens to their own bodies.

Or you don't.

Anybody pro life gets shot down whilst women having abortions (even multiple times using it as form of contraception) are always given sympathy

You spelt "controlling forced birther wrong"

And, yes, forced birthers should be shot down, and if I had my way, they'd be shot too. How dare you try and dictate my health care?* *

So do you disagree with abortion at any stage and for any reason?

Not your choice or business

Despite the catty insults on here I think I have (for the most part been civil). Yes I said I'd probably glare at someone, but I have every right to disapprove. The same way that smacking is legal in England but I'd still disapprove.

For me. I read both sides of the argument and came to my conclusion as to what I believe is morally right and wrong. Others have different views and that's fine. I may not agree, but I do understand both viewpoints

Instead of firing dirty looks, why not just tell them straight up how you feel about them? Or do you not have the guts to do that?
I would prefer you to tell me so that I can cut you off. And you can also give your eyes a rest from all the glaring.