Termination of pregnancies - too willing to terminate, maybe there are other choices?

[Ilovepastafortea]

I have trouble with the issue of terminating pregnancies.

For context I had 5 miscarriages & 1 baby born 'sleeping' at 29 weeks.

Also 2 of my (3) husbands were adopted-well DH's mother was adopted in the 1920's. The point is if abortion was available in 1963 & 1926 neither of them would have existed. Their childless mothers wouldn't have had babies to love & care for.

If my first husband had been aborted my lovely son wouldn't exist. He killed himself at the age of 32 leaving me with a baby. But at least I had my baby which was part of him.

If my DH's mother had been aborted my 3 lovely step children & 7 gorgeous grandchildren wouldn't be here. Both of my step sons served in the Royal Navy - one in special forces & got his Green (Marine) beret. My Step daughter is a nurse & worked in A&E for many years, is now a Matron. She has saved many lives & made a difference to many other people's lives including taking unpaid leave to be there when her grandmother was dying.

But then I understand why some people do it.

I can particularly understand it if the woman has been abused or raped - who would want to bring their abuser's or rapist's child into the world. I get that.

I just wish that they would think about having their unwanted baby adopted so that someone who can't have a baby can love & care for it.

My heart goes out to those with an unwanted pregnancy & facing this.

I don't know what I'd do to be honest.

I have no doubt that most women terminate a pregnancy after much heart searching & grief. However, I also hear about women who are terminating their 3rd or more pregnancies & using it as a method of birth control.

So brings me around to AIBU to ask if people terminate a pregnancy number 3 or 4 are being unreasonable?

Or not.

Just canvassing opinions.

Even If the birth of that child destroys the life of the mother, her mental health? Which in turn means that baby is born into trauma, from which it will suffer lifelong damage? Or do you not care about that?

You’d rather it developed and became a newborn that suffered, rather than an embryo that….didn’t?

Shocking.

You’re ok with women having to go through with an unwanted pregnancy and not have a say over her own body? I think you’d be better off in the US with their laws.

I'm very glad your kind will not make abortion law, but if it looks like you are, I'll be there on the other side, doing whatever it takes to keep abortion safe and legal. The cruelty of the forced birthers is appalling.

Or Afghanistan.

You’re misunderstanding I’m referring to the woman who have late abortions at home, used to be a criminal offence now not. Why are women not accountable now?

Because women who had genuine miscarriages were being put through the mills of the criminal justice system, and that must not happen again. Honestly, this is not difficult to grasp.

Because those women need support, not punishment.

I'd completely decriminalise abortions personally. It should be a medical procedure between a woman and medical professionals and nothing more.

Of course that’s very different and i did say that sometimes difficult decisions may need to be made. It’s there in black and white you can’t deny it or accuse me of not saying it.

What "difficult decisions"?

It’s also a nonsensical, oversimplified and ill-thought out point. Rape is de facto legal. The conviction rate is notoriously low and a large instance of cases are never reported.

Then consider the responses to #MeToo. There was a large pushback along the lines that women were simply jumping on the bandwagon and probably lying to boot.

Upshot: women are disbelieved. If they speak up against rape, they’re lambasted for the ‘privilege’ of having been a victim and daring to speak up in such a way as makes men look bad. Even in those rare cases where the perpetrator is tried and convicted, women are victimised twice.

Then some people moot abortion as a ‘reward’ for being raped - presumably on the basis that a woman had enforced sex that she didn’t enjoy. On what basis? Will she be expected to 'prove' her victimhood and retraumatise her that way, too? And if she isn't believed - as so frequently happens - what then?

As both a twice rape victim and a woman who has experienced multiple miscarriages, words can’t adequately express my contempt and disgust of this view.

Religious ideology that denies women choices has no place in a liberal democracy like uk. Theocracy and ideology being espoused as a good idea. Religious ideology used to oppress women without any misgivings expressed by other women. The baffling spectacle of women disempowering other women based on religion

Yes agree
@ScarlettOYara Women are brutalized by rape and then punished for being raped

So, you thought the decision to keep her alive was right? They carried out the caesarian section earlier than planned because her body was already decomposing. It's utterly dystopian. I also believe that her family had to pay her medical bills, even though they didn't want her to go on life support.

If the woman deserves to be punished or not, of course.

The woman above died so she doesn't deserve to be punished
The next woman who was raped doesn't deserve to be punished

The woman who had consensual sex? Bingo. She gets a baby she doesn't want as a punishment.

No I meant sometimes abortion is a better option if a child is going to have no quality of life. However like I said I don’t agree with people just having careless sex and using abortion as a contraception.
I’ll always stand by that.

Posters glibly and casually discussing how they’d deny women choice on basis of religious ideology.
Casually discussing who may have been careless in their contraception or who will not have autonomy and choice. Who will get choice and autonomy and who will not,

creating a hierarchy were religious zealots decide who is deserving of an abortion (the raped) and who is undeserving of abortion (the careless)

What is "careless sex" and how do you decide to apply this criteria?

Yes, quite. It's just like Bleak House: to the illegitimate Esther - "you are your mother's shame, and she yours".
Very Dickensian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/02/women-accused-of-abortions-in-england-and-wales-after-miscarriages-and-stillbirths

I really hate where this is going, am shocked by some posters on here, and fear, utterly, for the future my daughter faces.

Abortion is healthcare. It is for a woman to decide. No one else. Literally no one else has a say over her body and her health. What people want to force women to endure is barbaric, dystopian and utterly backwards.

So you would remove a woman’s right to make decisions about her own body?

What about a genuine contraceptive failure? They happen, though I’m assuming you understand statistics, which may be a stretch. Does that count as careless? Is it only ever the woman that’s careless? She should be denied an abortion because her boyfriend put a condom on wrong and it broke? His carelessness is hers to bear? Is it her fault if he stealths her and she doesn’t know? Is it her fault if her coil becomes dislodged and is no longer effective?

I honestly don’t think you people think these things through. You just blindly grasp at your ‘beliefs’, repeating them over and over, ignoring logic and examples, seemingly unaware of how inconsistent they are and how utterly foolish they make you look.

What about a genuine contraceptive failure? They happen, though I’m assuming you understand statistics, which may be a stretch. Does that count as careless? Is it only ever the woman that’s careless? She should be denied an abortion because her boyfriend put a condom on wrong and it broke? His carelessness is hers to bear? Is it her fault if he stealths her and she doesn’t know? Is it her fault if her coil becomes dislodged and is no longer effective?

I honestly don’t think you people think these things through. You just blindly grasp at your ‘beliefs’, repeating them over and over, ignoring logic and examples, seemingly unaware of how inconsistent they are and how utterly foolish they make you look.

@Rabbitsockpeony - one of those in the article was a 15 year old girl who was under investigation for a year.
Absolutely outrageous.

Having been through pregnancy and child birth twice, it is not something to just think of as oh I’ll go through with it anyway so the child can be adopted.

There are a small number of great people who may do that, but it’s not an easy thing to go through at all and it isn’t something I could do. It’s a women’s body and she can decide what she wants to do with it.

indeed What will be the criteria for careless sex?
which religious zealot or illiberal zealot will decide women’s health choices?
what about Other potentially careless activities? Alcohol? Gregarious behavior? Disobedience? Will those behaviors be sanctioned?

Some senior cleric will be able to advise, no doubt, based on bronze age scriptures.