Termination of pregnancies - too willing to terminate, maybe there are other choices?

[Ilovepastafortea]

I have trouble with the issue of terminating pregnancies.

For context I had 5 miscarriages & 1 baby born 'sleeping' at 29 weeks.

Also 2 of my (3) husbands were adopted-well DH's mother was adopted in the 1920's. The point is if abortion was available in 1963 & 1926 neither of them would have existed. Their childless mothers wouldn't have had babies to love & care for.

If my first husband had been aborted my lovely son wouldn't exist. He killed himself at the age of 32 leaving me with a baby. But at least I had my baby which was part of him.

If my DH's mother had been aborted my 3 lovely step children & 7 gorgeous grandchildren wouldn't be here. Both of my step sons served in the Royal Navy - one in special forces & got his Green (Marine) beret. My Step daughter is a nurse & worked in A&E for many years, is now a Matron. She has saved many lives & made a difference to many other people's lives including taking unpaid leave to be there when her grandmother was dying.

But then I understand why some people do it.

I can particularly understand it if the woman has been abused or raped - who would want to bring their abuser's or rapist's child into the world. I get that.

I just wish that they would think about having their unwanted baby adopted so that someone who can't have a baby can love & care for it.

My heart goes out to those with an unwanted pregnancy & facing this.

I don't know what I'd do to be honest.

I have no doubt that most women terminate a pregnancy after much heart searching & grief. However, I also hear about women who are terminating their 3rd or more pregnancies & using it as a method of birth control.

So brings me around to AIBU to ask if people terminate a pregnancy number 3 or 4 are being unreasonable?

Or not.

Just canvassing opinions.

imagine the religious men and the zealots getting to decide women’s health choices . Dystopian hell

Depending on how late the abortion is, there most certainly is a baby and it will have to be birthed.

... and quizzing women on whether or not they had "careless sex".

The vast majority of abortions happen within the first 12 weeks so the vast majority of the time there is no baby.

So zero framework? No 2 doctors to sign off? No limit for when you can abort?

I’m pro abortion, however I’m not pro choice as to whenever or however. I don’t agree with someone using it as birth control, sex selection. I don’t think it should be suggested as the answer to everything just because someone’s gotten themself into a mess because they’re contraception “didn’t work” The disregard to life sits really badly with me.

I would never campaign against abortion because for every careless, idiot there’s a woman/girl who would be saved by having one.

Want to acknowledge your powerful post
powerful

👏

The human condition can render us careless feckless, emotional .Humans
are both capable and incapable. Religious doctrine and theocracy cannot cope with complexities and human flaws.

A medical framework which would still include doctors needed to sign off so between a woman and her doctors.

No legal limit.

At 12 weeks there is a baby with the body formed - head, arms, legs, torso and all major organs. The baby will be miniature, around the length of a finger. But still an actual baby, not just a collection of cells.

I don’t disagree with abortion at all. But I think some of the stuff on this thread is just straight up rubbish and people are starting to take it far too lightly under the guise of women’s rights. Abortion is necessary and very often the best decision that a person can make. But this talk of a collection of cells is absolutely not applicable to a 20 week foetus, not even a 12 week foetus.

Again, women absolutely need this right. But if someone has had 4 or 5 or more abortions, something is really wrong. And that needs at least a conversation with a professional for advice going forwards.

It’s not a baby - it’s often barely a foetus.

There are many reasons to abort. I had two terminations in quick succession, around 15 years ago. I am extremely glad I did so. The first was when I was with someone who was a casual rebound fling from an abusive ex. I lived in a two-up, two-down in a very deprived area, with a mentally disturbed housemate, no job and I had hardly started working through my shit either, of which I clearly had a lot. I used condoms and was on the pill, took it religiously but I’m (very blessed to be) mega-fertile. Carrying a child to term in those circumstances would have been practically criminal. The care system is already creaking at the seams - having a kid to throw them into that life is hardly an act of kindness either.

The second was a few months later with the aforementioned abusive ex (told you I still had a lot of shit to work through, getting back together with him). I didn’t know much but I did know that being tied to him for the rest of our lives was not fair to me and certainly not to the child. I had the bloody implant by that point and still got pregnant.

I cried both times and grieved their loss, even though it had been my choice. Choices I have never once regretted.

I’m now pregnant with our first child with my DH, a wonderful and infuriating man I am lucky enough to have been with for 14 years now. We’re terrified and excited. I’m overprepping and sniping at him for underprepping and generally getting in a tizz over it all. I even have three different sterilisers, even though I’m planning to breastfeed 😂

But through it all I know I’m in a much better place mentally, emotionally and practically to provide a more stable, healthy and loving environment to our little one.

This is just my story. There are thousands of others, with reasons just as compelling for terminating. Because it comes down to this - you don’t have to be comfortable with other women’s choice. You don’t have to understand their reasons. Their reasons are good enough for them, and that’s ok. If they don’t want a human growing in them but it’s somehow happened, they have the right not to be a glorified incubator up until the point the foetus could survive outside of them. And it has nothing to do with you.

My best friend at school was given no choice but to give up her accidentally conceived baby for adoption (she was one of 3 children of a widowed mother, it was the 70s and there really was no option given to her).

It utterly ruined my friend's life. A very bright girl (we were in the 6th form doing A levels), she fell apart.

I'm sorry for your losses OP, but other women face other difficulties about which you clearly have no understanding..

What about hyperfertility? I have a close friend who has conceived while on both the mini pill and using a coil. Conceived again with an implant.

She had multiple terminations because the NHS would not tie her tubes. Because she had not yet had a family.

Rather than judging other women, why don't you educate yourself and then walk a mile in their shoes.

Thanks. In real life I have never heard anyone say they agree with full term abortion no matter what, or anything close to that, because honestly they'd sound like Goebbels, only online do you hear this approach.

Edited to add, I wish the stuff about the age of the foetus and consciousness and pain was much more mainstream too - I had a miscarriage at 11 weeks long ago and spent a long time miserably imagining the foetus might have known or might have suffered, it would have been really comforting to know the truth, it felt nothing at all.

How many people have extensive discussions about abortions in real life? I can't say it's a discussion that comes up often and if it does, it can be kind of taboo and people don't always state their honest opinion.

People are more likely to state their actual opinion online. Especially if they don't feel like they have to tiptoe around family members, fall out with friends etc.

Nope. I have discussed abortion regularly over the years with many women. If you believe in abortion past 29 weeks for any reason or none you are a monster. I have nothing more to add - oh except that yes I very definitely have said that in real life too.

It is possible people don't talk about their own abortions much - but I have known four women who had abortions and were quite happy to share. I daresay I have known many others who didn't for whatever reason.

One had had four within the space of about four years, which I found quite ick, but she wasn't a friend just an acquaintance and I didn't have much to do with her. Plus they were all early stage abortions, so I just did what I always do when I find someone a bit ick and didn't pursue the friendship.

"Sound like Goebbels"...are you for real?
The Nazis banned contraception and banned abortion because it was the woman's role to produce children for the Fatherland. If they didn't, they were coerced. Have you heard of Lebensborn?.

This thread is absolutely unbelievable, and the level of ignorance astounding.

Irrelevant. As you know Goebbels was a monster who tortured children. As you are fully aware that was the comparison being made.

I don’t think it’s easy for any woman to make the decision to have an abortion. But it is THEIR decision to have one and not yours to make.

That’s the thing though, it was a really easy decision for me. There was absolutely no way on earth I wanted to continue with that pregnancy.

I think that is actually the standard, usual response. Studies have shown that women who abort mainly report feeling relief. I never had an abortion, but there was one point in my life where I thought I might be pregnant to a bit of a loser boyfriend and I recall looking in the mirror and thinking "nope, not doing this" and I daresay I would have gone ahead with an abortion if my period had not arrived to my great relief.

The four women I have known who discussed their own abortions had no regrets and seemed quite genuine in that.

It appears we are in agreement that abortions at 38 weeks don't happen, or at least are extremely rare. So I'm not sure what part of my post you're disagreeing with.
Yes, abortions happen late in pregnancy due to severe disability, to save the life of the mother, etcetera, but it's hardly going to be at 38 weeks. Those problems would come up sooner than that.

Not true. A surgical abortion, a D&E, involves a general anesthetic and the woman does not have to 'birth' the foetus. She is completely unaware of the procedure. She wakes from the anesthetic, stays long enough to demonstrate that her bodily functions are working, and is discharged.