Termination of pregnancies - too willing to terminate, maybe there are other choices?

[Ilovepastafortea]

I have trouble with the issue of terminating pregnancies.

For context I had 5 miscarriages & 1 baby born 'sleeping' at 29 weeks.

Also 2 of my (3) husbands were adopted-well DH's mother was adopted in the 1920's. The point is if abortion was available in 1963 & 1926 neither of them would have existed. Their childless mothers wouldn't have had babies to love & care for.

If my first husband had been aborted my lovely son wouldn't exist. He killed himself at the age of 32 leaving me with a baby. But at least I had my baby which was part of him.

If my DH's mother had been aborted my 3 lovely step children & 7 gorgeous grandchildren wouldn't be here. Both of my step sons served in the Royal Navy - one in special forces & got his Green (Marine) beret. My Step daughter is a nurse & worked in A&E for many years, is now a Matron. She has saved many lives & made a difference to many other people's lives including taking unpaid leave to be there when her grandmother was dying.

But then I understand why some people do it.

I can particularly understand it if the woman has been abused or raped - who would want to bring their abuser's or rapist's child into the world. I get that.

I just wish that they would think about having their unwanted baby adopted so that someone who can't have a baby can love & care for it.

My heart goes out to those with an unwanted pregnancy & facing this.

I don't know what I'd do to be honest.

I have no doubt that most women terminate a pregnancy after much heart searching & grief. However, I also hear about women who are terminating their 3rd or more pregnancies & using it as a method of birth control.

So brings me around to AIBU to ask if people terminate a pregnancy number 3 or 4 are being unreasonable?

Or not.

Just canvassing opinions.

That's just awful.

I’m with you op, I don’t agree with using abortions as a type of birth control. I’ll hold my hands up and I have no issue with saying I’m pro-life. An unborn baby has just as much right to life as the Mother and Father. Obviously I understand that sometimes difficult decisions may need to be made (eg if the baby is severely disabled and isn’t going to have any quality of life)

Im sorry for your losses.

I’ve had 1 termination in my life, I can assure you that decision WAS for the baby and the children I already have!

We had 2 children (what we could afford, house and care for properly) I then fell pregnant unexpectedly. I wanted that child SO badly, selfishly, but I knew it wasn’t right with the age I was and my health, and financially, all my children would probably have suffered down the road. So many reasons.

It was the hardest decision of my entire life, I felt almost suicidal for 3 months after.
2 years on, I can see clearly it was the right decision. I don’t think a majority of woman make this decision lightly

OK, so be clear and honest: would you like to see abortion banned unless there is abnormality incompatible with life?

Where do you stand on pregnancies resulting from rape or incest?

Knowing that women who cannot get an abortion legally will seek out an illegal one, and that this will lead to more women dying, do you feel that this de facto death sentence is perfectly just and acceptable?

Not so simple, is it?

Do you think that a foetus has more rights than a woman?

That's what it comes down to.

Either a woman has more rights or a foetus has more rights.

Team woman all the way.

No it’s not that simple nothing ever is.
In answer to your question though. Hand on the Holy Bible in general Yes I would.
Of course there are going to be exeptions (sp) to the rules and it would need to be considered case by case. Absolutely a poor women or young girl finding out she’s pregnant after a s/assault is very different to just having sex with out precautions or a care in the world then getting pregnant and saying “Oh I’ll just have an abortion, there are after all plenty of contraceptives available to prevent pregnancy.
I’m sorry if that upsets any one, but you did ask and you also asked me to be honest

@Awwlookatmybabyspider so the only situation is if a girl or woman was raped?
Otherwise, the foetus has more rights, is that what you're saying?

Not necessarily more rights but equal rights.

The foetus is still a foetus no matter how it is conceived though.

Is it really about the foetus or is about punishing a woman for having sex without 'a care in the world'?

If so, what punishment do men get?

How isn't it more rights?

If you make abortion illegal other than a few exceptions you are saying that the foetus comes before a woman's bodily autonomy and unless she's been raped, she'll be forced to be pregnant against her will.

That isn't equal. It can't be equal.

This

Equal rights? A potential life which cannot exist outside the uterus has equal rights to a living woman?

Quite. It's putting the foetus before the woman. This isn't about "equal rights" at all. It's about controlling women, judging their behaviour and stopping them having bodily autonomy.

It's all about punishing the woman for having sex.
If it was about the foetus, the manner of it's conception would be irrelevant, as you say.

OK, so you have not properly addressed my points:

We know that if legal abortion is not available, women will seek out illegal options. That is a matter of established fact. Illegal abortions kill women. So give me an answer: do you think a death sentence is appropriate as a punishment for having sex?

I would also like to ask you whether you really, really think there is such a thing as 100% failsafe contraception that always works? Because I find that people don't understand failure rates when it comes to contraception. For instance: condoms are effective, if used properly, about 98% of the time. But that doesn't mean 98/100 people. It means 98/100 instances of intercourse. Now imagine a happy, committed couple with a healthy sex life who use condoms correctly. How many times in a year would they have sex? Can you see where things might go wrong? It is perfectly possible to use contraception responsibly and still have an unplanned pregnancy - it happened to three of my friends, and they were using double contraception.

Did you agree with the case in the USA where a brain-dead 8-weeks pregnant woman was kept on life support for five months against her family's wishes until the baby could be delivered? The baby was 1lb 13 oz and had water on the brain. Because she was over 6 weeks pregnant, the state limit for an abortion, she was artificially kept alive in order to give birth to a baby which probably won't survive and won't have a mum.

That all sounds pretty fucked up to me.

'but it affects society'

Not half as much as bringing unwanted children into the world.

your compassion is astounding. Like woman who have abortions chose the easy option. You’re being thick and positioning yourself in a position like you have any experience of what it’s like to be in that situation. Behave yourself.

Sorry, your DH lived such a miserable experience that he killed himself in his thirties (potentially to do with adoption trauma, or genetic disposition) and you can’t see there might have been some benefit of sparing him that suffering?

Adoption and abortion are both valid choices. And both can bring about a lot
of trauma and should be chosen with careful consideration for all parties.

Posters are suggesting the only time a woman can chose abortion is when she was raped. Making choice illegal based upon religious ideology
That is dystopian theocratic control of the type enforced by Taliban

Firstly I don’t have to give you any answer. What is this Court or Mumsnet. Talking to me like a Barrister.🤣.
My opinion counts for nothing I’m a random nobody. I’m never going to be passing any Laws, am I.

I'll ask the question again as no pro lifers seem to be able to answer it.

Absolutely a poor women or young girl finding out she’s pregnant after a s/assault is very different to just having sex with out precautions or a care in the world then getting pregnant and saying “Oh I’ll just have an abortion, there are after all plenty of contraceptives available to prevent pregnancy.

If you are against abortion because it is killing a "baby" then why is it ok to "kill a baby caused by rape"?

This is my position exactly. But I can’t imagine being forced to go through pregnancy, birth and then giving a child up- it seems horrific.

This ⬆️. Plus women are routinely punished for being raped in those dystopian, theocratic misogynist regimes.