Termination of pregnancies - too willing to terminate, maybe there are other choices?

[Ilovepastafortea]

I have trouble with the issue of terminating pregnancies.

For context I had 5 miscarriages & 1 baby born 'sleeping' at 29 weeks.

Also 2 of my (3) husbands were adopted-well DH's mother was adopted in the 1920's. The point is if abortion was available in 1963 & 1926 neither of them would have existed. Their childless mothers wouldn't have had babies to love & care for.

If my first husband had been aborted my lovely son wouldn't exist. He killed himself at the age of 32 leaving me with a baby. But at least I had my baby which was part of him.

If my DH's mother had been aborted my 3 lovely step children & 7 gorgeous grandchildren wouldn't be here. Both of my step sons served in the Royal Navy - one in special forces & got his Green (Marine) beret. My Step daughter is a nurse & worked in A&E for many years, is now a Matron. She has saved many lives & made a difference to many other people's lives including taking unpaid leave to be there when her grandmother was dying.

But then I understand why some people do it.

I can particularly understand it if the woman has been abused or raped - who would want to bring their abuser's or rapist's child into the world. I get that.

I just wish that they would think about having their unwanted baby adopted so that someone who can't have a baby can love & care for it.

My heart goes out to those with an unwanted pregnancy & facing this.

I don't know what I'd do to be honest.

I have no doubt that most women terminate a pregnancy after much heart searching & grief. However, I also hear about women who are terminating their 3rd or more pregnancies & using it as a method of birth control.

So brings me around to AIBU to ask if people terminate a pregnancy number 3 or 4 are being unreasonable?

Or not.

Just canvassing opinions.

Do me a favour, put your thoughts on your social media, state that its ok to abort the baby of a rapist or incest, but not ok to abort if you had sex 'for fun' so I will know if you're one of my friends so I can remove you and block you. I would be disgusted if someone I thought was a friend was so narrow minded.

What about families where having another child will make things worse for the existing children ? There are so many circumstances where abortion is actually beneficial to children who are actually here on Earth and not just potential children ? What if a mother has complications and doesn’t want to risk her health so that her children still have their mother? There are so many possible scenarios and I struggle to see how you can just have a blanket moral objection to something when actually it could harm existing people to carry on with some pregnancies ?

It's part of the Puritanical attitude that women are not allowed to enjoy sex, or if they do, they must be punished for it.

I’ve seen people calling on this for abortions. Then wanting birth certificates for before 24 weeks. Surely the child is real or not. I’m not buying “you don’t want an abortion don’t have one” It’s fine I won’t, but it affects society and forums like this pressure women into having them and I strongly suspect by women who’ve had them their self, telling them it’s the right path having abortions, justify what they’ve done. We are all entitled to an opinion without insults. Also how come if a woman has an abortion late term on her own no criminal charges if a man punches a woman in the stomach or gives her an abortion pill without her knowledge he gets done for murder? I’m a feminist but there’s a point we need accountability too.

@snughugs - you have no evidence that women "pressure women into having them". You misunderstand what feminists want - a woman's right to choose.
If she chooses to continue with her pregnancy, her body, her choice. It's a common lie perpetuated by the right/anti women lobbies that somehow girls and women get pressured into having abortions.
They don't. They get supported.

Once a person actually exists we can't imagine a world without them. But there's no particular reason for any of us to exist. If my parents had had sex a bit later I wouldn't have been born and I don't have an issue with that.

Well, if the birth parents of your DH, MIL, etc had practiced abstinence, they also wouldn't have existed.

If their birth parents had used birth control successfully, they wouldn't have existed.

If their birth parents had never met, they wouldn't have existed.

Etc..

I do think that early adoption sometimes needs to be explored more, not so much as an alternative to abortion, but as an alternative to children living in abusive and chaotic homes and often ending up in care at a later stage when they are more damaged. But adoption doesn't always work out well either. and was insufficiently regulated in the past.

Wanting a birth certificate for a much wanted child you lost is nothing to do with abortion. People have abortions because they do not want that child - they may or may not feel sad about that, depending on circumstance. People who miscarry and want a birth certificate will be those who wanted that child, and for them there will always be loss and sadness. The two things are not mutually exclusive. You have a very simplistic view of life.

This forum doesn't pressure anyone. It's a place where people express opinion, that is all.

Your conflation of a woman seeking a late term abortion (which will, according to the data, be for serious medical reasons, because women don't have late abortions for the funsies) with a man who gives a woman an abortion pill when she does not want an abortion is cruel. You are no feminist.

By the way, the case of the paramedic who gave a woman abortion pills was not a murder case. He was found guilty of assault, sexual assault and causing a woman to have an abortion (that she did not ask for or want). That is the law doing its job.

We have accountability - but you seem unable or unwilling to grasp that 1) it is not better for babies to be born to people who do not want them, and 2) contraception is not infallible.

Goodness. Its almost like the difference between a WOMAN wanting to continue a pregnancy is the same as one wanting to end a pregnancy.

So you cannot see the difference? Its all about the planned and wanted outcome.

I don't want to have a child - end it as soon as possible, and as late as necessary, not a child, not a future - no problem.

I want to have a child - and I am denied this due to nature or other person involvement - future possible and wanted child is mourned.

You’re actually likening legal healthcare to a man violently assaulting a woman in order to destroy a foetus?

Also how come if a woman has an abortion late term on her own no criminal charges if a man punches a woman in the stomach or gives her an abortion pill without her knowledge he gets done for murder? I’m a feminist but there’s a point we need accountability too.

You're not a feminist.
You are mostly a feminist, for the bits you agree with.

Are you saying that the man should not face prosecution for physically assaulting a woman, or drugging her because she is able to get an abortion?

I assume you mean the poster I quoted, and not me.

@snughugs. Lots of interesting points to unpack here. Firstly I’m not buying “you don’t want an abortion don’t have one” It’s fine I won’t, but it affects society.

Whether you buy it or not is immaterial. The law is the law, and it's very clear. It's not for women to uphold the values of society - not that these are often universal - at the cost of their own physical and mental wellbeing, or to put themselves at risk to carry a pregancy they don't want.

forums like this pressure women into having them

Unsubstantiated nonsense. What I have seen is posters advising other women that termination is an option, should they choose that, rather than continue with a pregnancy in the often untenable situations they are in. This, ofc, is something entirely different from some sinister agenda to persuade women to end their pregnancies. There would be no purpose in that whatsoever - it's an option available to them by law. I've been on this site for years and have never once seen pressure applied on any woman to terminate a pregnancy. I'll eat my words if you can definitively prove yours, but suspect I'll have a long wait.

telling them it’s the right path having abortions, justify what they’ve done.

No woman has to justify what she's done. Not our uterus? Not our business.

how come if a woman has an abortion late term on her own no criminal charges if a man punches a woman in the stomach or gives her an abortion pill without her knowledge he gets done for murder?

You are mistaken on a point of law. Where violence results in miscarriage, the criminal charge is 'assault with intent to procure a miscarriage'. Only in circumstances where the child is born alive but dies as a result of injuries inflicted on the mother in utero can a charge of manslaughter be potentially brought. As to mothers having late-term abortions - it is her body and her right. It's not the right of another person to bring about a miscarriage by assaulting her. The distinction is so obvious you'd think it barely needs pointing out, but in the context clearly not.

We are all entitled to an opinion without insults.

No, we are not. Within the talk guidelines people can insult my opinions as much as they like, and if I think your opinions are a crock of shit I'm quite at liberty to tell you so. It is, after all, a discussion forum.

I’m a feminist but

No need for further comment. The 'but' can stand by itself.

I can respect the pro life stance....if you believe that life begins at conception, then fine....just don't try to impose your view on other women.

What I struggle to respect is the pro life unless you've been raped stance. Because it's not about the unborn then, it's about punishing women for daring to want and have sex. Surely if you care about the unborn then their conception is irrelevant.

The OP fucked off days ago after a whopping three posts including 'what about the baybee'.

What’s going on why are there so many anti abortion threads all of a sudden??

So many things have an impact on society, and yet it is the individual's right to determine for themselves, what and how they do them.

Whether to have children. Or not.
Whether to smoke or drink. Or not.
Whether to indulge in high risk sports. Or not.
Whether to overindulge with food, or underexercise. Or not.

Society is made up of individuals, who ultimately are the ones who bear the consequences of their own choices and actions.

I have seen every one of these anti abortion arguments made by SPUC. The one that particularly nauseates me is where they attempt to pretend to concern for the women's welfare. It's just so Fucking Fake.

What about it?

Like fuck are you a feminist. You really can't see the difference between a desperate woman having a late abortion and a violent and abusive man punching a pregnant woman in the stomach? Do you think that Parliament should approve a bill not to prosecute men that punch pregnant women in the stomach to get rid of the baby? You sound like a psychopath.

I believe that both men and women should take measures that won’t result in an unwanted pregnancy. Abortion shouldnt be used as a contraceptive.

Apologies for not being clear. Yes, I was meaning to reply to @snughugs

It's funny, isn't it, @SerafinasGoose ?
"I'm a feminist, but...."
"I agree with abortion, but...."
🤔

Abortion should be the woman's choice. Why she chooses abortion is up to her.

Op has just written some very sensitive information in regards to miscarriages and a still birth and you call in rambling on.

I was going to report your post for this hideous analogy, but I won't because other people should be aware of the awful views that 'pro-lifers' hold:

'Also how come if a woman has an abortion late term on her own no criminal charges if a man punches a woman in the stomach or gives her an abortion pill without her knowledge he gets done for murder? I’m a feminist but there’s a point we need accountability too.'