Michael Jackson was a paedophile. Why does the local school choose one of his songs for the kids to perform to?

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I also have a friend whose little boy has learnt all his moves and she puts MJ on for him to dance to.

I don’t understand, hearing his music makes me feel sick.

MJ aside, I think you can label pop music as brilliant. You can label classical music, reggae, pop, metal - all can be brilliant musically, lyrically, artistically.

It’s very snobbish to say that pop cannot be brilliant and I’m not a particular fan of pop music.

Jimmy Savile was never charged during his lifetime. Michael Jackson was, and he was acquitted, and was never subsequently charged with or found guilty of anything. He was definitely weird, and deeply disturbed, and his upbringing has much to answer for. But that is not the same thing as being a paedophile.

But he also paid irrepressible alleged victims off
Why would an innocent person do that?

The abuse allegation is unfounded. He admitted to sleeping in the same bed as them, he didn't admit to abusing them. I personally think he was very damaged and as damaged/unaware of appropriateness and social norms as he was, saw it as a big sleepover and saw himself as a big kid/one of them. However that's just my guess, I'm not saying he definitely did or didn't abuse anyone because I have no way of knowing.

The pay off means nothing. Perhaps he was guilty and was paying for it to all go away, perhaps he was innocent and found it too stressful or traumatic to go through so paid it to go away.

None of us here can definitively say if he's guilty or innocent.

Throughout history many musicians , artists , business people have done immoral things.
For examples several UK cities were built on the proceeds of slavery, Jerry Lee Lewis who is still
celebrated for being one of the founders of rock and roll married a 13 year old, Picasso was a misogynist.

You’re being ridiculous.

Hang on David Bowie was a peadophile ?

Yes, allegedly.

The sheer number of allegations, supported by witnesses and even captured on camera along with confirmation by the police of how many reports there had been is why Saville can be safely labled a paedophile.

I don’t know the truth of MJ, the evidence isn’t overwhelming and relies almost entirely on the testimony of a few boys. That said, the documentary was harrowing and I have no reason to believe those reports are untrue.

At the very least, the optics of having small children dancing to his music are pretty poor.

I don't know how all the people defending a man who slept with young boys can read this and say it's of no consequence that we continue to fete, acknowledge and praise this man as an artist? All the sophistry about 17 year olds, and drug taking and drawing lines - this is how we create a culture that welcomes weird uncles and dodgy headteachers and never listens to or protects children.

No, of course you fucking shouldn't.
Paul McCartney wrote a song about a 17 year old when he was 20.
Michael Jackson shared a bed with a 10 year old when he was 30.
I suggest you draw your line somewhere between the perfectly reasonable thing to do and the perverted thing to do

It’s pretty long but it’s good to watch chase the Truth. It’s from an independant journalist who just wants to investigate rather than take a side and prove that side:. Goes into things like where the abusee said it took place that place wasn’t built at that time. That MJ had let the boy and his family stay at his ranch for over six months and they got very used to the lifesyle and wouldnt leave. He asked them to and when they did they completely changed on him and accused him of all sorts. That he settled because legally you have to do this first before you go to court as it can prejudice the case so the abusees wanted the civil case to go first and get thr money - MJs lawyers wanted the criminal case to go first but were forced to settle etc. I don’t remember it in detail but it did make me go whoa.

I hope you don’t listen to the Red Hot Chili Peppers then whose lead singer openly admitted to having sex with a child in his autobiography.

This is so far removed from children singing a song he recorded. Did he write it? Whose song is it?

I would have more patience for the ‘separate art from artist’ line if people were just dying to watch repeats of Jim’ll fix it or Animal Hospital (Rolf Harris) or listen to Garry Glitter. But they aren’t. Because those ‘artists’ aren’t fashionable. Paedo behaviour aside, they’re a bit cringy and 90s.

When sexual crimes are correctly investigated and prosecuted, go ahead and separate art from artist. But while women and children are still being asked what they were doing/wearing, did you say no, you wanted it really though didn’t you, why didn’t you come forward before? A massive statement needs to be made society that we will not accept this behaviour.

These artists don’t work alone. Their ‘people’ arrange for them to meet women and children and then say they had ‘no idea’ just because they weren’t actually in the room. Why? Because that artist continues to bring in A LOT of money. Anything remotely predatory needs to be the end of that artists career. Otherwise people are hugely incentivised to ‘turn a blind eye’

Letting your kids love an artist they will later discover ruined people’s lives with prolific sexual abuse is absolutely nuts.

His music is amazing

I would have more patience for the ‘separate art from artist’ line if people were just dying to watch repeats of Jim’ll fix it or Animal Hospital (Rolf Harris)

You honestly can’t see the difference between listening to Michael Jackson’s music and watching reruns of Jim’ll Fix it? 😂. Even if Saville wasn’t paedophile, the programme was shit.

Also in terms of ‘where do we draw the line?’ I’d say we have to start somewhere. Diddy, R Kelly, Michael Jackson. Let’s just keep going from there. Trying to irradiate all artists who have behaved badly is obviously impossible and therefore used as an argument by people who don’t want to have to stop listening to music they like.

Just like it’s basically impossible for a vegan to avoid all animal products in the modern day, it’s impossible to analyse every book, film or song for the behaviour of its creators.

But not playing the music of someone who based his entire identity around “I’m the dude with the candy and the fairground little ones” would be a great starting point.

Yes absolutely, the vast majority of abuse and rape cases go unconvicted because these monsters are careful. There are often no witnesses. Victims often have vet shaky and unreliable recollections of the abuse because of the effects of trauma on the brain. It's not difficult to abuse vulnerable people and get away with it. It's easy, especially for rich and powerful people like MJ who can pay lawyers to intimidate victims and make them go away. How many of us on this thread have been raped, assaulted or abused and how many of the monsters responsible have been convicted. And how much damage does it do when people choose to side with the abuser.

It is just disgusting when people continue to defend men who behave like MJ, grooming young boys, sharing his bed with them, dumping them when they reached puberty. All in the public eye. It is just shameful, it makes me so angry.

Congratulations on establishing the point. No one watches Jim’ll fix it cos it’s shit. But if it was put on tv no one would say ‘that’s shit turn it off’ they’d be (quite rightly) OUTRAGED. Whereas Michael Jackson people say ‘well yeah but he was a musical genius’ as if that makes it ok.

Michael Jackson is not a paedophile, he wasn't convicted

The poster I replied to said ever

And, as it still happens in some countries now, yes it was happening in the 90s

Being convicted makes you a criminal.

Having sex with kids makes you a paedophile.

One of these does not apply to Michael Jackson.

The vast, vast majority of paedophiles and rapists are not convicted.