to not understand Christians who have sex/live together before marriage then marry in church?

[onlytwo]

Posting here because I am genuinely confused and not trying to offend anyone.

I keep seeing couples who describe themselves as Christians who have been living together for years, sometimes with kids, then they get married in church with all the religious vows etc. I thought one of the key Christian teachings is no sex before marriage yet it seems really common that people ignore that part but still have a big church wedding.

AIBU to think it is hypocritical?

Atheism is as much a belief system as various religions

No, it isn't.

I don’t see it as a belief but a disbelief in the existence of any god. I work on facts and evidence and there isn’t any.

Yeah I was thinking the same it smacks of AI in its entirety. The irony.

That we can discern. This caveat is humbling. The alternative is to presume that we know everything and that is not a sound way to approach science.

Our limitations are severe: we can only perceive three dimensions, for goodness sake. If a god or gods exist, why should we think we are capable of perceiving them?

Fair enough, but if they can't be bothered to manifest and do anything decent, they can't then demand worship of people either, not can their adherents use their beliefs to impose their will on others.

Most people who call themselves atheists are specifically agnostic atheists. That means that they understand caveats like yours but they hold the position that they presume there is no god unless they see good evidence of one and that they have seen no good evidence.

Yep, that's me. I'm open to the remote possibility, but that is because science. Evidence would be needed. Outside of that, I derive the same kind of comfort and strength from my belief that there is no god that believers get from their faith in a deity.

An interesting clarification, @MasterBeth and @pointythings . I see no reason, and feel no need, to presume one way or the other.

I find the examples of those who have come to faith through doing science at the highest levels very interesting.

In case you missed it upthread, someone questioned the intelligence of believers and I do find this weird. The example I mentioned who is surely more accomplished than that PP was Dr Francis Collins. He is an Emeritus Director of the National Institutes of Health, USA (the largest health research organisation in the world) and he led the project to first map the human genome. He holds both an MD and a PhD. He came to Christianity as an adult, and his belief is deeply entwined with his science.

This is the guy who led on deciphering the code of human life, and he is a devout Christian. He finds those strands of his life perfectly consistent and speaks to this point elegantly. It is by no means clear that science favours an atheistic stance.

Science requires evidence. Good evidence.

The fact that a scientist has come to religion has nothing to do with science. Religion requires faith. Faith is the belief in something without good evidence.

Of course. But doing science awakens faith in some of the most intelligent people on Earth. Partly because the science itself is so perfect. It is fascinating to watch.

There are lots of different sorts of intelligence.

Mind your own bedroom, thanks.

I don’t think my position as a lifelong atheist is going to change. If there was existence of god and everything that goes with it, you would have thought the evidence would be available.
I see no reason or benefit in changing my position.

How does if they can't be bothered to manifest and do anything decent fit with For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life?

I mean yeah it was 2000 years ago but it's a bit arrogant to think that you personally are worth so much more than all the previous generations of humanity that God should have held off the whole process of incarnating as a human in order to be perceptible rather than numinous, and should have done it now instead of then, to make things easier for you.

Way to completely miss the point I was making...

I think not judging others is a bigger teaching in the bible.

Not necessarily a Bible teaching but part of being a decent human being

Most of the world’s great philosophies including religious ones agree in theory about the value of kindness and tolerance. I agree many religions, particularly but not exclusively the Abrahamic ones, tend to forget this.

Leviticus says to love foreigners in your country as much as you would anyone else because we were all foreigners once. I don’t see many modern Christians sticking to that one either.

There are loads of Christian-led charities set up to support refugees.

Certainly. And lots set up by atheists who honk that helping refugees and asylum seekers is the right hing to do. Not because the Bible told them to.

It's pretty clear I was replying to a specific comment from a poster who said Christians don't support foreigners.
It's not charity top trumps

The religion doesn’t forget it at all, sadly some of the people who claim a faith in it do.

That’s your interpretation of it.

It’s not everyone’s.

Even some vicars have a different interpretation to you.

And to add, god didn’t make any commandments about sex before marriage.