to not understand Christians who have sex/live together before marriage then marry in church?

[onlytwo]

Posting here because I am genuinely confused and not trying to offend anyone.

I keep seeing couples who describe themselves as Christians who have been living together for years, sometimes with kids, then they get married in church with all the religious vows etc. I thought one of the key Christian teachings is no sex before marriage yet it seems really common that people ignore that part but still have a big church wedding.

AIBU to think it is hypocritical?

But my point is that the Bible is the word of God and if you are a Christian and believe in God then, yes, you should follow the teachings of the Bible

But this is the point, in a modern rational world, even if you are a Christian, most don't believe in an actual "word of God". God doesn't speak or write, and even the concept of passing down those wisdoms through others if it happened today, you would probably be medicated or sectioned!

The modern world IS very different, you can believe in a God, be a Christian, but still not believe in the words of the Bible.

Matthew 7:1 is what's wrong with that. Though I guess, the OP is not claiming to be a Christian so it's fine for her to judge away as much as she likes...

YANBU

The entire premise of your question was 'I keep seeing couples who describe themselves as Christians' suggesting they they shouldn't describe themselves as Christian if they are having premarital sex.
'one of the key Christian teachings is no sex before marriage yet it seems really common that people ignore that part.'

I'm pointing out that faith in Jesus and the God of the Bible is what makes a person a Christian, not following the Bible down to the letter, so people can describe themselves as whatever they like.

As Justin Welby said, the Church is not a rest home for saints; it is a lifeboat for sinners. So you might expect members to be sinful - but aim to be repentant.

Most people find Jesus' two commandments hard enough:

1. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength" (also in the Old Testament) and
2. "Love your neighbour as yourself." Ie, behave in a loving manner towards all other people every second of every day, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, for life.

No wonder they struggle with assorted extra commandments, and directions.

It's quite hard to misinterpret God on some things: Deuteronomy 22:21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you. Pretty explicit. If you're daugher has sex out side of marriage you should stone her to death. God is pretty keen on stoning.

You don’t have to be perfect to love and be loved by God.

No help when you want great sex🤣

I think a lot just want to have a church wedding.

I do not belong to a religion. I was never bought up that way, but I do have my beliefs , I do believe in the sanctity of marriage etc. I do believe in til death do us part and see my marriage as for life, to work though things etc.

I always wanted to be married in a church as I wanted it to be more than just a legality. I always dreamed of marrying in my local church. My now husband had already been married. He married in a church and we spoke about it , how they attended church for a number of ‘sessions’, how they could be arguing on the way to church and would then go in and do what they had to do, so that they could have the church wedding because that’s what his ex wife wanted and then they spilt because of her infidelity. My husband was very clear that he did not share the beliefs of the church , and only did it because she wanted to marry there. He said the same to me that he would go if that’s what I wanted but that for him the place we got married wasn’t important but the marriage was . I realised then that it would be hypocritical. I also knew that despite having my own beliefs I would not likely continue to attend after the wedding so decided against it.

It was a big thing when I was young. People proud of the fact they hadn't had sex before marriage. More people went to church then.

The church still won’t marry my two friends because it’s a same sex relationship - not exactly a welcoming and supportive organisation?

This was a very interesting read. Thank you for posting 👍

Who says that no sex outside marriage is a key Christian teaching? That might be specific to your church.

Indeed. Judge not that you be not judged. It doesn't, btw, mean you should never make judgements. It's about pre-judging someone on superficial characteristics. And also one must see the sinner as separate from the sin. Mind, do not mention pews in my church - you will get some cross opinions (the vicar likes them, others think we would be better with a more flexible arrangement and she should authorise it - cue dark mutterings) - but pews are not that important. Try 1 Corinthians for what is important (and ignore the bit about women not speaking in church, Chloe, who alerted Paul to the situation in Corinth, is obviously a church leader and she is not being told to be silent in church - the direction is to several women in the Corinthian church who are (among a group of men doing the same) causing divisions. They are being told to stop doing this - along with the men, who are pointedly told to stop arguing, now!).

@onlytwo, there are many things in the Bible that would make you gasp in horror. It’s this sort of Old Testament fundamentalism that causes so many problems in the world ( look at the evangelical right in America ). Love, loyalty , faithfulness, compassion ….. these are the things we should consider to be desirable in a Christian. And I speak as a deeply committed Christian.

The Bible nowhere specifically states that there should be no sex before marriage - that is a man made (literally) rule. Anyone who knows anything about Jewish custom and culture at the time of Jesus would be aware of the fact that Joseph and Mary were not married! Jewish custom at the time was to have a form of "engagement" which included cohabitation. Marriage was celebrated once a child had been born, thus proving the woman wasfertile. In those days, men being infertile was, of course, impossible.

have a quick google of The West wing bible lease, think it explains it all pretty well

The Bible holds different status for different types of Christian anyway. Some believe it is a literally word of God, more like Muslims believe thier text to be. Others believe it was written by men and divinely inspired and believe that apostolic and church tradition is also important in understanding teachings.

The most ‘Christian’ people I know (as in regular church attendance, heavy involvement in church activities, were married in the church) are a convicted paedophile and his partner who has actively attacked the family of the child he abused.

While I think there are very flexible interpretations of how to put religious beliefs into action across various sects (I’m Jewish and it’s wildly different across different approaches to Judaism too), there is also a whole lot of (a) cognitive dissonance, what people say they believe and how they actually behave can vary hugely, and (b) the church is looking for bodies in seats these days. You can do terrible things, but if you’re willing to turn up and do the right stuff to keep the church going as an institution, those things can be overlooked.

And my ex,from many, many moons ago is a Muslim but we still had sex despite never marrying

So no-one should ever judge anyone else…

Well, that rules out any judgment or criticism of crime, wrongdoing, hypocrisy, or just plain nastiness.

And you put that into practice, do you?

Well let’s be honest many Christians pick and choose which bits of the Bible they want to adhere to, so I think you are being unfair with your criticism. The Bible is happy with slavery and beating slaves, polygamy, stoning adulterers, scorning barren women, not allowing women to teach, chastising homosexuals, offering virgin daughters to rapists. But hey, you just stay on your moral high horse 🙄

The church has problems with marrying same sex couples because of the nature of its relationship with God, which is seen as a marriage, the church being the bride and Jesus the groom. You can see how that would cause problems. Some vicars will do a blessing.
Just because society thinks something is good, kind, socially progressive etc does not mean that it should be done - not everything that looks progressive or good is actually those things. Put another way, just because you fancy/want/desire to do something it does not mean that you should do it.
And Christianity is not 'inclusive', though it is welcoming and supportive of those who wish to find their way to God - it tries to signpost the Way to salvation and a happy life. It does not accept that anything goes as long as you turn up to Mass/Eucharist on Sundays - I've already suggested 1 Corinthians and it has a passage on sex and marriage which is useful to understanding marriage in a Christian context. 1 Corinthians 13 has 13 verses on what love is, as well - a comprehensive explanation (it's the famous bit).

@onlytwo The bible says a lot of things. Thankfully, church teachings have moved on from that.

Exodus 21:7 sanctions a man selling his daughter into slavery
Exodus 35:2 says anyone working on the Sabbath shall be put to death.
Other things in Leviticus 19...
Don't plant two different crops next to each other
Don't wear fabric woven of two different materials
Don't eat rare steak
Don't cut the hair at the sides of your head
Don't get a tattoo
Don't go to a clairvoyant

People's faith is personal. It's for them to make peace with their God.
What they choose to believe in, or not is entirely up to them and has fuck all to do with you. Your nonsense about "falling short" is offensive.

I'm an aetheist by the way. I get my bible teachings from The West Wing.

Well I think the people who follow organised religion are mostly hypocrites.

I honestly think it’s just something people say or something they believe because someone told them to. Some people need to be given thoughts to think.