To think that even this horrendous tragedy won't change America's stance on climate change?

[AnnaQuayInTheUk]

I'm just reading about the dreadful flash flood in Texas and all those poor little girls who have drowned. So sad.

But, just as endless school shootings make no difference to America's attitude towards guns, I don't think this will change many people's minds - and especially Trump's - on climate change. Deniers will continue to argue that flash floods have always happened, as have wildfires, without any recognition that the frequency and intensity of these weather events are affected by human driven climate change.

So
YABU. - this will be a wake up call for the US government
YANBU - the US will still refuse to work towards carbon reduction/net zero

An unimaginable tragedy which will bother the MAGA White House less than if Trump's hairdresser couldnt get to work to prepare him for tv. I am so sorry for the people of the USA, all of them, they appear to not know what they've done and what the consequences will be.

@cakeorwine Found a new one to add to the other quotes!

I've got a list of the ways people argue. It's not a straw man but there is definitely a word for the arguing technique you just tried to pull.

@BlueJuniper94 sadly it's probably too late to avoid ill effects of climate change, we're already seeing the consequences. However, that doesn't mean we should just give up entirely, which is how I interpreted your message.

We've probably already overshot the 1.5C temperature increase, but every point of a degree upward matters. We still have a duty to do everything we can to minimise the temperature increase, to limit the damage as much as possible for future generations.

Managing to keep the increase to 2C is going to result in a hugely more livable world than 3, 4, 5C. They are all very different scenarios, it's not as simple as an on/off switch, we absolutely can still make a difference, even if it's not quite as positive as we hoped.

Please point out exactly where I have preached anything. Your comments are really offensive.

We have family in the USA. They are in despair over their current government's attitude to many things, and so are millions of their fellow citizens. The trouble is... they can't shout as loud as Trump can.

Unfortunately, there are too many people who are gullible enough to follow his outpourings and to be honest, if they are that hard of thinking, they will be unable to comprehend the sheer enormity of the climate change issue.

Look, you seem like a very reasonable person. I don’t even think you’re a bad person, You must care very much about climate change otherwise you wouldn’t be engaging in this discussion. (You’ve been one of the most rational I’ve seen here).

I just think everyone needs to take a minute sometimes to remember that there are real people behind these headlines and families who are grieving.

I’m sure you and at least most of the people who has commented in this thread wouldn’t rock up to a funeral for one of these victims and yell ‘it's probably too late to avoid ill effects of climate change, we're already seeing the consequences.’. (Yes that’s a direct quote from this thread) So ya know maybe give it until at least all the bodies are found and not use them to further a pet cause.

You have a great evening. Hopefully we’ve all found something to reflect on tonight. I’m logging off now 🙂

Friendly reminder that guns are the leading cause of death for children aged 1-17 years old in the US. Not sepsis, not car crashes, not cancer. Being shot.

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2024/guns-remain-leading-cause-of-death-for-children-and-teens

Maybe, maybe not at the camps. It's really hilly.

But that first responders didn't get the flood warning, which means it is happening, and get the word out to evacuate, no. When those weather alerts are activated, every cell phone blares and they should have a way into the police stations and firehouses and, well, emergency management.

Here's a timeline. Link is to NPR.

I think the clues in the ‘thousands of years’.

I think you should put names to those quotes.

I posted nothing of the sort.

I can't help the victims but I do want to know what went wrong because there were hours to get at least some of those people out

Although I feel their pain they need to try harder. The failure of the US to come up with decent presidential candidates is ridiculous

Here you go, OP. "Climate change" circa 1900:
www.galvestonhistory.org/news/the-1900-storm

Many do. They had quite an audience.

What have you proved with that?

The usual baseline date is 1850, once the effects of the industrial revolution had started to be felt. Not sure much would have been easily detectable by 1900, but the shift of the extremes is becoming more and more obvious by now.

Yes, I'm with you on that, but you can't blame the entire population of the US. It is the responsibility of the party officials to field suitable candidates.

So by your logic, we should wait for a few more kids to die before insisting the authorities do something like a) accepting that climate change means more extreme weather events, which means b)installing a more effective early warning system.

Your argument is suggesting we should do and say nothing because that's more respectful?

@CliantheLang I think you are confusing climate with weather

I don't know how you get "rock up at a funeral"

But prominent people are saying that we need to prepare for a future where more extreme weather events are more likely

Contextualizing the disaster, AccuWeather climate expert and senior meteorologist Brett Anderson added:

A warmer atmosphere can hold more moisture, which can unleash extreme rainfall rates that rivers, streams and drainage systems are struggling to handle. We face a future with warmer air and higher ocean temperatures, increasing the odds of more extreme rainfall events and more people in harm’s way living and visiting in flood-prone and high-risk areas.

There is a bias called "normalcy bias" where people just don't think something awful is going to happen, despite evidence, and carry on as normal.

Looking at the pictures made me weep last night. I can’t imagine waking up in the middle of the night and being swept away in violent storms. Two sisters were found deceased with the rosary around their arms and their hands interwoven.

Apparently the camp was located is the most dangerous river valley in the US, which makes me wonder why the cabin was built there at all?

Meanwhile, Trump’s cuts to FEMA, the National Weather Service (NWS), and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) have gone unnoticed by Trumpers. They all say this couldn’t have been predicted, but surely defunding climate studies and gutting NWS’s staff isn’t helpful to at least trying to prevent these crises?

At this point, it’s clear that Trump’s draw is something beyond policies — he truly is leading a cult of personality. No amount of facts will change the bulk of his supporters. They will always find ways to excuse and lionize him.

As an American, I have to accept that almost half of Americans care more for the unbridled ownership of guns than the lives of its citizens.

I’m also an American who believes in human-driven climate change and I envy UK/ Europe. Often, I dream of living in the UK/Europe. However, my whole family is here. I would feel too guilty to leave them behind.

But it’s hard not to despair. I used to be a person of faith, but I can’t rekindle any of that old religious fire anymore. How can so much casual cruelty strike every day over our nation?

I don’t mean to be dramatic or to compare our situation to any prior one, but I am reading Corrie ten Boom’s “The Hiding Place” and it’s providing some comfort during my anguish. For those looking for ways to cope, reading about how others have survived what felt like the unsurvivable is helpful.

How many more extreme weather events, more record breaking warm years etc will it take before people say "Actually there might be something in this?"

Unfortunately it won’t make any difference, not just in the US but also in the UK.

There is something in it - some people just don’t think it’s as bad as it’s being made out to be or that these events are solely down to climate change. And pointing to a weather event in Spain when the thread is about one in Texas (in an area where these particular events happen fairly infrequently) as evidence that these events are happening more often isn’t going to convince anyone who isn’t already on the same page as you.