To think that even this horrendous tragedy won't change America's stance on climate change?

[AnnaQuayInTheUk]

I'm just reading about the dreadful flash flood in Texas and all those poor little girls who have drowned. So sad.

But, just as endless school shootings make no difference to America's attitude towards guns, I don't think this will change many people's minds - and especially Trump's - on climate change. Deniers will continue to argue that flash floods have always happened, as have wildfires, without any recognition that the frequency and intensity of these weather events are affected by human driven climate change.

So
YABU. - this will be a wake up call for the US government
YANBU - the US will still refuse to work towards carbon reduction/net zero

I'm not a shill. I'd love an oil and gas salary though so if any are recruiting I'd be happy to shill if you think I have the knack.

The purpose of my comments is not to persuade you that you can't make a difference. It's the comments of people saying we can vote our way out of this that are beyond ignorant. And yes, that level of naivety is far more dangerous than any number of shills. You clearly have zero understanding of how politics works. Voting doesn't even qualify as a fart in the wind. I'm not telling you to not vote - but I would draw your attention to my "green" candidates on offer on the ballot, the so called Scottish Greens. Look at them for more than a moment and you should start to wonder if they're indeed on the books of big oil. If voting for these clowns is the highest priority in your fight against climate change who even needs supposed 'shills' like me?!

Ther have been flash floods in America for ever. It's not new and it's not linked to climate change.

You're really reaching.

Not everything is about "climate change".

There have also been wildfires for ages.

However - with warmer climates, the chances of wildfires increases

Just as with flash floods.

Climate change increases the likelihood of such events happening. It's not a binary issue - it's not a case that climate change causes such events. It just makes the chances of such events happening even more likely

You might expect that this and previous summers would have triggered some sort of action but if anything there is a rowing back on commitments - despite threats to the security of our oil and gas supplies

I previously said:

“It (voting) isn’t the only action to take, but it helps.”

Which you chose to ignore, perhaps because it is an inconvenient truth and you are indeed a shill. I really don’t know, but one thing for certain is that you have zero understanding of climate change mitigation.

According to you,

“Its too late. We're past the point of no return. To have any chance of trying to mitigate what's coming we would all have to revert to premodern lifestyles…”

This categorically isn’t true, and is not supported by science. Many mitigations, for example, build improvements and retrofitting insulation make life better, not worse. This ill informed rhetoric is designed to cause panic and inertia at a point where every action will make a difference. Highly irresponsible at the very point where millions of lives are at risk, through extreme weather worldwide, and food shortages in the developing world.

And by the way, here is how voting for the right candidate helps:

Our MP actually acts in our interests.

They don’t just talk, they back campaigns, ask questions in parliament, bring private members bills, take part in cross-party coalitions - hold ministers to account who are acting in the interests of oil and gas companies. No they aren’t from the Green Party, just an intelligent person who responds to evidence.

Voting them in was just the start of the process. We the electorate have to continue to engage them. Write to them, meet with them. Tell them what we want to see. Share evidence / intelligence where we have this knowledge.

Then imagine this multiplied across the UK.

YOU have not demonstrated that you understand how politics works.

Even if an elected representative holds different views, I would still encourage anyone else reading to please still engage with their MP. As taxpayers we pay their salary - they work for us. They need to earn it.

This was to @BlueJuniper94

😴😴😴😴😴

trump just wants to drill for oil
drill baby was in his inauguration speech

Writing to MPs is likewise whistling in to the wind, its a comfort exercise for those who don't want to actually compromise their standard of living. Serious people are building parallel communities to demonstrate how to live sustainably, reassure and encourage others it can be done until these small movements can reach a critical mass. Most people would rather post online, write letters and vote.

Net Zero is not the solution, it's not viable to affect the climate in any way by offshoring all your heavy industry to the far east. Even if a local climate improvement did occur, it would be morally dubious.

Troll. Even if you're stupid enough to believe that climate change isn't human-exacerbated, despite the overwhelming scientific evidence that it is, what about pollution? What about the dozens of harmful chemicals in our food, environment, and now in our bloodstreams? What about the plastic contaminating our seas, waterways and our food chain? What about the UXOs littering vast expanses of agricultural land as the result of warfare? None of these are down to 'the history of the planet".

This was to AuntyHistamine.

yeah... I think leaping to "climate change!" to explain this incident isn't helpful.

Highly relevant and especially "Texas" things that I suspect greatly contributed to this tragedy: parking RVs & creating campsites so near the dry riverbed & historic flood zone, lack of any official alarm/alert system to evacuate people, slow rescue service being deployed (kind of inherent to Texas sprawl designs), lack of funding for govt (state or fed) agencies to look for these hazards & implement response plans to evacuate.

My cousins fled from wildfires that engulfed an entire neighbourhood in California about 8 yrs ago. An important part of this event being that there was NO warning, no official evacuation. Cousins only fled because of another relative with connections to local fire service. That happened in a 'high regulation' state. Texas will have much less in terms of environmental hazard public warning systems.

It is a political-cause disaster... not environmental.

Do you think that this kind of incident is made more likely by climate change?

🥱 Quoting my original post for the THIRD time:

“It (voting) isn’t the only action to take, but it helps.”

You can do all of these things in parallel - voting, engaging your MP, lifestyle changes, ethical investment, supporting mitigations, etc. It is not either or.

Some actions are more impactful than others, minor ones such as voting that take up minimal time are still worthwhile, particularly when many commit to them. And many are doing a lot more, quietly transforming the communities we already live and work in.

Pre industrial hippy style communities are not what’s on the table, so you’re also wrong in that regard. Why don’t you educate yourself instead of spreading misinformation on the internet?

I could build a town in a place with lots of trees in a place where the climate is dry so there's a potential for wild fires.

Building a town there is potentially dangerous as a dry environment makes wildfires a possibility.

If the temperature increases and the environment near the town becomes even drier, then the probability of a wildfire increases.

Climate change leads to a warmer environment and potentially drier environments.

So you've built a town near a place where wild fires can occur - and climate change has made the chances of a wild fire occuring.

If there is a wildfire, I am sure that some people would say "well, wildfires occur anyway and you've built a town near there, so it's got nothing to do with climate change, you shouldn't have built a town there"

Others would say - well yes, wildfires occur and you shouldn't have built a town there - but climate change has made the chances of a wild fire occuring more likely. So you've increased the risk of a wildfire occuring in a place where there is already a high risk of them occuring.

The same goes for floods. Floods occur and if you live in a place that's prone to flooding, you can expect floods to occur. But climate change will increase the chances of a flood occuring.

But some people just want to say that when a flood occurs or a wildfire occurs, then it has nothing to do with climate change because they occur naturally.

Climate change just increases the chances of these natural events occuring.

Remember that Trump has drastically cut funding to weather and flood forecasting agencies too.

Net zero doesn’t work if it is done in the way you’re stating, but that’s mostly not how it works.

My company have cut their carbon footprint by 2/3, through reuse programmes, building insulation, smart upgrades to the vehicle fleet (not electrifying), rooftop solar generation and process changes. For a lot of businesses these changes also make good financial sense through savings on materials / fuel / labour.

From scientists:

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-texas-floods/

"The tragic events in Texas are exactly what we would expect in our hotter, climate-changed, world.

There has been an explosion in extreme weather in recent years, including more devastating flash floods caused by slow-moving, wetter, storms, that dump exceptional amounts of rain over small areas across a short time.

This frequently overwhelms river catchments leading to severe damage to adjacent infrastructure and loss of life. Such events will only become more commonplace as the global temperature continues to climb, driven by carbon dioxide emissions that still top 40 billion tonnes every year."

"“The devastating floods in Texas are a stark reminder of how intensifying extreme weather events driven by climate change are interacting with land-use change, urbanisation, and aging infrastructure to produce severe impacts.

While individual flood events are influenced by multiple factors, we know that warmer air holds more moisture, increasing the likelihood of intense rainfall. In many urban areas like those affected in Texas, impervious surfaces prevent water absorption, overwhelming drainage systems and exacerbating flash flooding."

Extending on the sin poster by pp... flash floods are Gods way of showing his anger at all the sin around - living together without marriage, divorce, abortion, women answering back to their fathers and husbands....

There are more extreme weather conditions because there is more sin in the world. If we went back to old ways of living, the weather would settle down.

(That's one perspective - I need to add it's not mine)

But this is why people will not be convinced it is climate change. Everyone has their thoughts and beliefs and will rationalise based on that. No pennies dropping anywhere.

I don't wish to detract from the terrible loss of life, and to be clear I am not a climate change denier, but this thread is a bunch of UK posters with no experience of the US or Texas specifically. There have always been flash floods. There will always be flash floods. In point of fact the Guadaloupe River has lfash flooding on a regular basis and has a history of serious flooding as far back as the 1800's. Texas also has a history of extreme weather, and always has had - it's location is the major reason for that.

If you want Americans to change their minds (and I agree they need to take climate change seriously) then you need better arguments than a tragedy where the impact of climate change is disputable - otherwise it will seem to many that the badwagon is jumping on a tragedy to make political points. This is a very different scenario than gun control. Guns kill people and there is no disputing that fact. The weather has, unfortunately, always played a part in deaths for the whole of human history.

There always will be flash floods.

How do you convince people that climate change makes flash floods even more likely?

Its not “America” it is literally just the Republican party. So, no, this won’t change anything as the party and its followers are utterly, proudly, impervious to facts.

I’m hugely sad for the children caught up in this nightmare, poor little loves. But otherwise I’m unmoved by all this. Floods in other parts of the world don’t get this sort of coverage in the UK media, why is this one? It’s time we accepted that the US is an alien, rogue state that is reaping what it sows. The US will do nothing to ameliorate climate change so we have to leave Americans to it. Drill, baby, drill - hope it chokes you!

"And many are doing a lot more, quietly transforming the communities we already live and work in."

Like what?