Non-binary teacher?

[Thompson198]

Name change.
I’ve got a 5 year old daughter due to go into year 2 in September. We’ve just been told that the teacher for next year is a non-binary/‘non-gender-conforming’ man who wants to be referred to by ‘Mx’ (pronounced mix) and they/them pronouns.
Quite a few of the parents have already complained and started looking for other places at local schools because of this.
what do you think?
My daughter has SEN and is one of the youngest in her class, I worry how she’s going to be able to keep up with the pronouns and understand this without us having to teach her about gender ideology at her age. My husband is extremely against teaching her gender ideology, especially so young, I’m not the most positive about it either but don’t feel as strongly as him. He also doesn’t want her being at the school in September but they have been very supportive for her so far and I’m concerned it might not be the same elsewhere.
Thoughts? How would you feel if this was your child’s teacher?

Ultimately though, whether it's at six or nine or twelve, you'll have to explain why the language this man wants them to use is not tethered in reality, whereas other peoples are.

What would that justification be?

Non-binary is under the trans umbrella actually.

They can be any gender they want because gender is made up. But having a feminine gender does not entitle them to female spaces. That’s all.

We don’t think they’re a child abuser, but it does bring up additional safeguarding issues, and it shouldn’t be wrong g to talk about that.

I’m afraid you’ve got confused.

There is only one way to be male or female. That is to be born male or female. End of.

I'd be moving her. No such thing as non binary. He's either an attention seeker or deluded.

Who's shouting when the kids get it wrong?

I absolutely dont think an adult should shout at children for getting pronouns wrong. I also dont think he should be talking through his political beliefs.

But I dont think its a political belief to say please call me Mx X. No one is saying they arent biologically male, or that the kids might get it wrong occasionally.

I dont think Mx X should make a big deal of it either. Literally hi kids I'm Mx X should be the end of it

A generation of people were raised being told they could "be whatever they want to be" and now some of them want to be a different gender they cant?

They can't be a different sex. I presume you're not suggesting that.

How can they 'be a different gender' unless gender stereotypes are seen as entrenched and immutable. Why can't we just say a woman's 'gender' can be literally anything? But that has no bearing on her sex, which is binary and immutable.

Im not suggesting for a moment its good to lie to kids or pretend Mx X wasnt born male. Just that its both true Mr X is male and non binary.

What is non binary though? To make that statement honestly you need to know what it means.

"In the trans debates 'being kind', only ever seems to go one way." - youre starting out with aggression, you're bringing up safeguarding Mx X has to be suitably background checked to the same level as all teachers to do their job. This person's said please call me Mx X and you've jumped to what if they're a child abuser? I think thats pretty awful. But I dont think we'll agree

I get that people find this hard to understand at first, but this is not necessarily about individuals. It's about destabilising of language and the effect that has.

I bring up safeguarding, because once you deprive people of the language to clearly describe their world, then our ability to safeguard is eroded. If we tell these tiny children that is man is 'not really a man', how do they know if other men are men? Perhaps they are 'not men' too. If we deprive women of the ability to define women as a sex class, how do they stand up for women only spaces?

Clarity of language is so important for clear discussion, rights, safeguarding. I'm not throwing that away to 'be kind' to a man who seems to think it's his six year old pupils job to affirm him.

I agree with most of your post but I think that the issue with the non binary is that it’s the start of a very slippery slope. It’s a very useful ‘harmless’ sounding introduction to trans ideology but once you’ve introduced the idea that identity is more important than sex, it’s much easier for the trans activists to push the vulnerable further down that slope.

I think I mentioned it in this thread but trans activists target children and vulnerable young people through LGBTQ clubs in schools, in online gaming forums and other methods. The older men who identify as trans delight in ‘cracking’ eggs (persuading young people to adopt a trans identity, it often starts with non binary and then escalates to opposite sex if - I’ve seen this with my own eyes). It feeds into their ‘sissy’ fantasies of forced feminisation (they are very open about it).

They use parental alienation and all sorts of manipulative techniques.

Obviously not all people who say they are non binary are actively recruiting kids but they open the door for the others.

If I didn't know the sex of the teacher, I'd have no reason to assume it was weird that they were in the female toilets though.

I might wonder why they were in the toilet at the same time as a child and would happily question that. That's regardless of their biological sex. But where I'm from, the teachers don't go to the toilet with the students. At most, they wait outside.

I have taught my children boundaries and consent regardless of sex. If my child was questioning the presence of an adult in a space where they shouldn't or usually wouldn't be, I would look into it whether they were a man, woman, or a non-binary identifying person.

You don't have to think that's the correct way to do it. But I don't have to think that there's an automatic danger to my children around non-binary or trans people, either.

Yes, I've taught my children to be aware of biological sex when it matters. If, for example, a man walked into a women's changing room, they would know to tell me there was a man in there. If the person who walked in was non-binary, I would want the safety and comfort of all women and girls in there to be prioritised over their feelings. And I would advocate for that.

If a transwoman was in there, I probably wouldn't even know!

@Thompson198 how did your meeting go?

Language isnt stable it evolves all the time.

Do you know "you" is plural? "Thou" is singular. Its like French with vous.
Noone is sure why this happened, but a theory I like is that the change was caused by the long succession of religious / civil wars that took place in England during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. It’s imaginable that violent times and social upheaval engendered uncertainty and thus caution. No one wanted to risk being disrespectful, so public interaction became more formal.But wait, isn’t “thou” more formal than “you”?No, the opposite. People have that impression only because God is addressed using “thou” in many Bible translations and well-known Christian hymns and prayers.What we’ve forgotten - and it is a little weird this was forgotten - is that people traditionally spoke to God using the familiar version. All language evolves, including pronouns. Im not arguing about trams rights or women spaces. I'm just saying if my child's teacher was a good teacher I wouldnt make it political or antagonistic to call the Mx X and I wouldnt make it about "safe guarding" when there's no evidence or concerns about behavoiur

This is a moot point since the Supreme Court decision in April. Also, teachers do not use pupils toilets. Whatever arrangements staff may make amongst themselves are of no concern to parents

@Tandora can you confirm who you are? You use the title doctor. We've interacted before.
I'm a mum and a biological female. I'm a law graduate and and GC. My DC is a Ftm.
You quite rightly argue for trans rights but the six frequent anti trans posters show their knowledge. They will never agree with you but I think you would do better to say how you feel as you do. My colours are I think trans ideology is just that but it is protected in law and shouldn't be subject to discrimination.
Why to you absolutely refuse to acknowledge others opinions? If you're a trans women just say so. As I've said until I'm bloody blue in the face that doesn't a pedophile make.

Yes but we’re talking about a teacher who’s up to no good, and entering the toilets when they shouldn’t. A safeguarding issue. Not a harmless teacher uses the adult toilets kind of scenario.

Yes language evolves.

But natural evolution is generally in ways that serve society at large.

Trying to decouple sexed language from sex is extremely detrimental to women - for very obvious reasons. And to children also, for slightly different reasons.

Why are we giving up our ability to describe our sex class clearly because a sub section of men are demanding it?

As stated above, I have serious doubts about how much a Reception age DC wants to know. If they asked I would say something like,

Well, I am always aware that I am a woman and I know Daddy is always clear he is a man. Are you always aware in the back of your mind that you are a boy/girl? Even when you are playing make believe? (I suppose the answer could be interesting)

Some people don’t always feel sure in themselves about being men or women. Doctors think maybe their brains are a bit different - nothing bad, just different. Some of these people use ‘Mx’ to let us know they just want to be thought of as people, instead of mainly as a man or a woman.

That’s plenty for a 4 or 5 yo

A generation of people were raised being told they could "be whatever they want to be" and now some of them want to be a different gender they cant?

That was intended so that kids could be freed from sex stereotypes so that girls weren’t forced to be secretaries or nurses. We all used to understand how human bodies work - no one can change sex. ‘Gender’ is made up stereotypes.

Also Mx X isnt trans.

Sorry. ‘Non binary’ sits firmly under the trans umbrella. Haven’t you heard the mantra chanted “transwomen are women, transmen are men, non binary people are valid” ??

Are you always aware in the back of your mind that you are a boy/girl?

Seriously? You'd ask that to a child of six. Why put that in their head? How would they have any basis for answering that question?

It reminds me of TRA type on SM who eventually transitioned their preschool child. They asked them every day if they felt like a girl or a boy. I remember thinking what utter lunacy is this. And eventually, obviously, the child told them they felt like the opposite sex. We are creating confusion in these children and it is leading to nothing positive.

But I would only say this in response to genuine questioning from the child. Once

PS ‘Usually’ would be a better word.

But what's the purpose of that question? On what basis could they answer it?

Most children have, for lack of a better word, a gender identity. Or they can be expected to grow into one. But I would also not freak out if they did not.

I agree with you that interrogating children on this topic is wrong on many levels.

I don’t think that’s the case. Most children have a sex and a personality. Gender is neither here or there unless you make them think it’s a thing that needs to be taken seriously.

Do they? Can you evidence that?
Or do most children just know they are a (biological) boy or a girl?

If you look at the thread recommended at the button of this one about a 9 yr old getting shouted at by a ‘non binary’ teachers. It wouldn’t be the first time.

But I dont think its a political belief to say please call me Mx X. No one is saying they arent biologically male,

It is a political belief to assert that humans can be something other than male or female. Or that identity is more important than sex, which is exactly what this teacher is saying.

But this is all made up