Non-binary teacher?

[Thompson198]

Name change.
I’ve got a 5 year old daughter due to go into year 2 in September. We’ve just been told that the teacher for next year is a non-binary/‘non-gender-conforming’ man who wants to be referred to by ‘Mx’ (pronounced mix) and they/them pronouns.
Quite a few of the parents have already complained and started looking for other places at local schools because of this.
what do you think?
My daughter has SEN and is one of the youngest in her class, I worry how she’s going to be able to keep up with the pronouns and understand this without us having to teach her about gender ideology at her age. My husband is extremely against teaching her gender ideology, especially so young, I’m not the most positive about it either but don’t feel as strongly as him. He also doesn’t want her being at the school in September but they have been very supportive for her so far and I’m concerned it might not be the same elsewhere.
Thoughts? How would you feel if this was your child’s teacher?

Part of the issue with the language is that it acts to obfuscate the sex of a person. This has the effect of lowering children's boundaries around what they will and will not allow depending on the sex of a person they are interacting with. For instance, if it is a young girl, should that young girl allow a male person to help her go to the toilet or not? If the person uses 'Mx' it sends an obfuscated message about the person's sex than if they are using the correct pronouns for their sex.

This is the nature of language. Since toilets are being discussed so much in this thread, a good example may be: Mx Smith is using the female toilet. Is this a potential problem or is this a female person using the correct toilet for them?

The media reporting on crimes is another example. When you see headlines stating that a woman has been arrested for a sex crime, is it a woman? or is not a male person who the media is describing as a woman? After seeing a stream of these, do we then start asking 'why have women started to commit so much sex crime like has never before been recorded'?

Ah, so they're protected under gender reassignment like other trans people?

I have no idea and this is rather far from my interest in the OP, so I will leave it. I was just taken aback by the implication that writing to the school about the existence of a non binary teacher could accomplish anything for OP

Well, no I don't think that's a good idea at all.

I think clarifying how they'll handle it if a child gets their title or pronouns wrong, what they'll be told about gender identity, and stuff like that is fair enough, but you can't complain about someone simply working there.

The use of Ms was about equality, the use of Mx in this instance is about identity.

Ms was a reaction to the discrimination between married and unmarried women. No other language changes were expected. Mx, when used for gender identity, is then typically requiring different pronouns than the usual English language convention to be used. It obfuscates sex which may be relevant to know. When was it really needed to know whether a woman was married or not married?

I don't see the two titles as being comparable.

Equally, of course, no one should preach ideology in the classroom. But I very much doubt that requesting the title ‘Mx’ would be considered by most reasonable people, or an employment tribunal, to rise to this level

Do you have a view on how the requirement to use this title can be explained to children without any reference to gender ideology?

It’s interesting that you bring up middle aged women apparently objecting to women adopting Ms as a title. There have always been women who are keen to act against the interests of other women. There were many women who actively fought against the Suffragettes for example.

Now there are women actively fighting to give away all of our rights by claiming that ‘woman’ is an identity that can be adopted by men. Or that an identity like ‘non binary’ is more important than a persons sex. Odd.

Using they/them can be a risk though, you don't deny that. How would you explain it with clarity to your child about the risk of male people within society? Or don't you do that?

What is also an issue, is that while one single person may not be an issue, when you combine it with some of the other messaging that our children receive today, there is risk of lowered boundaries generally.

“The reality is that statistically it's extremely unlikely that trans-activists will grab hold of children and convince them to get surgeries”

But the reality is that thousands of children have been groomed online and irl to do so, by TRAs initially, but then by wholesale adoption of affirming their teenage gender confusion (which many of us autistic adults fully understand, not that we’re listened to!).

The reality is very much that children have been metaphorically grabbed and encouraged to transition. Without this input they would have done the same as countless teenagers from past times who were able to leave their teenage angst years behind them unscathed.

Exactly this. The issue is with compelling children to perceive an adult in a way that contradicts reality. It's gaslighting en mass.

Hi Rita, your daughter sounds great. I think I dress very similarly to you and her 🤣 comfort first. I’m mostly in jeans/shorts/sweatshirts etc.

I do find it very sad that she has been led by society and media to think that her way of dressing is ‘masculine’ because she doesn’t dress like the girls on Love Island (I’m really not a fan of that over sexualised, over groomed and lagged with make up look) and I think shows like that do our girls a huge disservice.

The labels make me sad because it creates dissatisfaction and limits - I’d like to return to the good old gender non conforming days of the 70s and 80s where it was celebrated and not used as a tool to undermine child safeguarding and encourage girls who identify as non binary or trans to remove their breasts because that is what is happening in too many cases now.

People who haven't experienced this seem to think - if it happened - they would be more in control of the situation than May actually be the case.

Unfortunately I've seen this happen at first hand and once a child is sucked into the TRA way of thinking they can be quick to dismiss parental concerns about hormones and surgery as 'bigotry' and the threat of going no-contact is held over well meaning parents who don't play along. So, parents end up affirming far more than they know they should. Hormones and surgery have irreversible consequences.

It happened to my cousin and there are many similar stories on here. Lots of people really don't understand what they' could potentially be dealing with.

“The reality is that statistically it's extremely unlikely that trans-activists will grab hold of children and convince them to get surgeries”

I agree with your post and wanted to respond to this sentence you referenced.

I wonder how many girls convinced to remove their breasts unnecessarily before they are mature enough to understand what they are doing is too many?

One private doctor in London who used to promote himself on social media with ‘top surgery’ t shirts and posing with his topless post surgery girls had countless patients.

I think he was eventually struck off after a penis surgery went badly wrong but he is one of many ghouls who are profiting madly from vulnerable girls.

So if that’s what you perceive as the problem, what do you propose the solution is?

I don't agree. I think parents and the many gender critical people and bodies out there can and are doing enough to mitigate that risk.

I can only use my own circumstances and life as an example but I simply haven't found it difficult to teach my children autonomy and safety just because there are trans people in the world. I don't know how else to say it.

Have a read of my post from a few minutes ago.

This is exactly the mentality I'm thinking of.

Yes I think we could agree on the majority of that but I'd look to finish your final thought/ examine that final implication: live differently from what or from whom?

Because one major issue for me with this particular belief system is the sexism inherent and implied (rarely being brought front of mind to be examined) and therefore insidious within it.

Because if we say that this man is different (or believes himself to be different) from other men or from most people because he doesn't "identify" with masculinity and is therefore is not a man, then this is a belief that men have to be masculine to be men.

Not only do I think that the implication is a load of regressive, sexist claptrap, I do actually think it is an inherently harmful and damaging message to be giving to children.

It embeds sexist ideas, while pretending that it doesn't with softly, softly, nicey language; it's confusing (because it lacks internal logic whenever questioned and requires believers to hold two conflicting ideas in their head at once, and believe both are true - (1)Men and women can be/act/do anything they want without restriction! But (2) there is a certain type of feeling that correctly matches being a man vs a woman!); and it encourages children to question whether they think there is a 'mismatch' between their bodies and personality (which is sexist and presents a framework in which there is something 'wrong' with their bodies if their personality doesn't match a set of standards associated with that body type). Again, this would be vehemently denied by activists if confronted directly but it is inherent in the ideology. We are then back round to internal contradiction and requirement to fervently believe two conflicting things at once, IngSoc style.

I think an inherently healthier simpler and correct message is that man and woman refer to the two different sexes which means the physical role you'd play in making a baby and the way your bodies develop in adulthood to do that, but that your sex has no necessary implications or links at all to your feelings, personality, likes, dislikes etc. and it is therefore impossible for there to be a 'mismatch'.

We may not be saying to our children that we believe this sexist thing this teacher believes, but if we are presenting that as a reasonable belief that they have to respect and may choose to adopt, I think that is against their best interest because it encourages them to tacitly approve sexism and tolerate it against themselves coming from other people (not to mention all the medical issues that arise of they do indeed decide to adopt it wholesale themselves).

To complain, of course. They also have influence over that teacher (and others), and could create and follow a very much binary policy.

A man pretending to not be a man when surrounded by your children is not to be trusted.

Op, this is an old post from earlier this year. www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5333360-9-yr-old-told-off-for-calling-non-binary-teacher-sir

Ultimately, if you go along with trans identities, you are colluding in the idea that there's a right and a wrong way to be a biological male/female.

Much healthier to teach children that as a biological male you can present/act/look/feel anyway that works for you. Same with female.

Bloody hell, that was a shorter, more elegant way of putting my diatribe 😅.

This is blatantly illegal under the 2010 Equalities Act as the school and LA will be well aware. The Supreme Court ruling in April was careful to clarify that this protection remains in force

I imagine loads.
I had my first baby in my mid twenties, that was the first time I “felt” like a woman and adjusted somewhat to having breasts (have never got used to periods!). I look back and feel so sad for autistic women who’ve been sold the lie that they can be boys. They stand to miss out so much. It’s criminal.

If Miss Smith gets married and becomes Mrs Jones it's never a big deal the kids just learn her new name.

If hes a good teacher just call him Mix X like it's no big deal. I wouldnt be giving more attention to this that absolutely necessary as long as he was a good teacher. And if my kid asked, id just say thats the name hes asked you to use, so just be polite and try and pronounce it like he does. The same advice id give if a teacher married/divorced/had a difficult, perhaps foreign pronounced name. Ask the teacher how to say it and try your best. I wouldnt mention their gender at all

It’s mind boggling that this isn’t the norm for everybody by now.

The problem is, kids will ask. They will want to know why and what it’s all about.