For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

Yanbu. Im surprised as my dc school
wont change them, even in reception as far as I’m aware. At 5/6 it might still take children a while but they are capable of changing themselves if wet.

Teaching staff also have a right to say no to nappy changing.

It is not necessarily neglect, for your information.

My child soils themselves and is much older. It wasn't until we paid privately to see a consultant that we got some answers as to why it was happening, but still no treatment. There is literally no solution anyone can offer and no "medical" diagnosis either.

Teachers that work in early years should know that kids have toilet accidents it's always happened.
Obviously there's a big difference between a teacher teaching in a secondary school and a reception teacher becsuse the age and needs of the pupils will be very different.

There is no way you should have to charging a 6 year old child at school, too many crap parents these days. They should be ashamed sending a child to school who isn’t toilet trained, embarrassing for all concerned! It’s lazy parenting usually. Unless they have severe SEN, they know when they need the toilet 😂the odd wee accident I can understand but shitting themselves at school is awful

@LimitedBrightSpots

No, it isn't their responsibility.

Teachers and TAs are not responsible for a child's intimate care needs unless the child has a care plan and those members of staff have agreed to carrying out the intimate care and been specifically trained to do so.

Having a teacher view and touch a child's intimate areas - no matter how young they are - from a safeguarding perspective is problematic, and so no teacher or TA should be doing any form of intimate care unless it is outlined and agreed to in a child's care plan and appropriate training has been given.

Parents should be called to deal with any kind of soiling or need for changing where a child can't handle it themselves.

Has this always happened or have I been living under a rock? This certainly wasn’t an issue when I went to school.

My view is it isn’t your responsibility and I would refuse also. I’d urge you to reconsider your career options also. Too many excuses being made for parents and your feelings are never going to matter it seems

Yes they are, but they are also normally in loco parentis. Which means caring for the children in their care! What would happen in your ideal world if they called the parent in and the parent couldn’t get there for several hours?

I think fair enough to stand outside the loo and the dc cleans themselves up and puts dirty stuff in bag then parent is called

are TAs expected to kneel on the floor etc like you do with a toddler

That's irrelevant. You're not 12: saying 'but they started it' is pathetic.

I would be extremely, extremely surprised that a 6 year old with no SEN or medical issues was choosing to shit themselves regularly in a mainstream classroom.

I think that child needs help changing themselves and you should ask for the training then take it in turns with other staff to do it.

The teacher really should follow up with the family to start to find out what is going on.

But obviously this child doesn't so what do you suggest ??

If you say so…

Of course he’s entitled to an education. If he has medical needs, does he have a designated learning support assistant to help with his incontinence? An LSA is not the same as a TA.

My son has an EHCP and an intimate care plan with 2 named TA's who change him.

Thankfully they would never dream of leaving a disabled child soiled.

As a parent of a child with disabilities, I would like to say that having an incontinent child is not easy. Toilet training is definitely the easier option than having a child still having regular accidents so I never understand why people consider it must be down to lazy parenting.
Support for toileting difficulties is also pretty much non existent.

I’ve taught for over 20 years (in all kinds of areas) it is not at all unusual for a child in year one to wet or soil themselves. I would certainly be expecting a number of ‘wee’ accidents a week. As I TA I am very surprised your job description is so specific- most have some generalised terms suggesting ‘supporting children as needed’ or undertaking other duties. I would suggest you ask for some intimate care training (shouldn’t take long) and then support these children as needed. I am sure the school are sensible enough to decide when further discussion with parents is necessary regarding any special arrangements. Even if you decide to teach KS2 you will find that child wet and soil themselves. Teaching can be a v unglamorous job. We all have to be prepared to support children and the rest of our team as needed.

In loco parentis? Nope.

I have read this thread with interest despite being neither a parent or a teacher. I am however in a profession that takes safeguarding very seriously and deals with children on a regular basis. The thing that struck me in the OP’s initial post was the lack of “intimate care” training. My feeling is that if it is expected that you are to help young children with changing needs then there should be some kind of system/ training to facilitate this within the school to make sure it meets all the safeguarding criteria.
I have changed the nappies of my nieces/nephews and my friends children when required but this was in a home environment and at the request/ under the supervision of the parents ( usually so they could laugh at me and the faces I tried not to pull). I wouldn’t be comfortable doing this for a child I didn’t know but I recognise that within a school environment this may be a grey area (?)
If it is expected from the school that as a TA this is part of your role ( and it may be given the young ages of the children involved) I would ask for training to ensure all safeguarding criteria are met.
If you just can’t stomach it then be prepared- I’ve learnt from my brothers offspring that children, whilst they are adorable, are are also snotty, smelly, messy and sometimes not in control of their bodily functions!

Intimate care should be in your job description
what if a child vomits down themselves would you expect them to clean themselves and change themselves at that age?
Not being aware of care plans or additional support isn’t an excuse, you should ask about the children you’ll be caring for

Yes but specialist people should be employed to deal with those events of his care.

Have not read the full thread, but am a TA. None of us would leave a child sitting in soiled clothes to wait for a parent to arrive, many of them work and hour or more away (popular commuter area)! I think it's sad that anyone thinks that would be acceptable.

But we also always support in pairs, and I'm sure if there was a child that was having accidents this often the parents would have been asked to seek medical advice.
We do have some children that regularly wet, but they changed themselves independently.

I am shocked that professional teachers and teaching assistants are expected to be cleaning up children’s poo on a regular basis,

I cannot recall this happening when I was a child at a large primary school. A child who has wet themselves should be able to take off wet pants and put on clean ones and redress themselves at 4, with an adult overseeing them.

This must surely be lazy parenting , excluding children with medical conditions and Sen. I hear it a lot from clients who are teachers. Many are trying to leave the profession. I think it has become a common problem, instead of a rare one,

I am so glad my children refused my encouragement to become a teacher. I feel so sorry for teachers.

And Sen and medical issues are a normal occurrence for schools to deal with.

These are named people on his care plan.
OP is not a named person on any care plan.