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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For refusing to change a 6 year old?

1000 replies

Bernie6678 · 02/07/2025 19:48

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 08:14

80smonster · 03/07/2025 08:13

Look, I was never under the assumption that TA work is glamorous or hygienic, that’s the rub with small kids. If one doesn’t like it they should do something else! I honestly don’t give a shit if OP will or won’t wipe shitty arses, but minimum wage and cleaning up revolting mess kind of goes hand in hand, those who are pretending it doesn’t are fantasists.

Um, no.
Nice try belittling people though.

suburburban · 03/07/2025 08:16

MadKittenWoman · 03/07/2025 00:23

No, they can go to the toilet and sort themselves out with someone providing clean clothes and a bag to put dirty clothes in. If they can’t do this themselves due to a disability, then they need a care plan with a specifically named person to help them. My DS could pull his pants up and down and wipe his own bum properly when he was two, so a child without any obvious SEND not being able to do it at six is ridiculous.

Yes that’s what should happen and perhaps that would stop it happening as much

are staff excepted to follow them into the loo or use a changing mat?

are there proper facilities in schools

are most TAs employed now to support EHCP dc and if so are they not neglecting their duty with them if they are having to deal with this issue with another pupil?

ADreamIsAWishYourArseMakes · 03/07/2025 08:16

OK, so your answer is, one of us can't work?

Most jobs you can't leave at the drop of a hat several times a week. Lots of people commute for work, and rent/mortgages need paying.

I think you need to be clear on what the ask of parents is, it's not just popping in. The days of having someone at home or part time are gone for lots of families.

And let's not forget there's a child who is soiled and is going to have a sore bottom is they need to wait 30 minutes for a parent to come in.

My nurse colleague has two children with SEN, thankfully her school is understanding or I don't know how she'd work at all.

OneSpoonyGreyWasp · 03/07/2025 08:18

How can an education be given if staff are having to leave to change several children several times a day? Losing the rhythm of a lesson. To catch the child up on what they have missed whilst being cleaned. It’s not easy or quick you know to clean a soiled child that is large. To wipe up what is left in the chair.

If we are saying that there were always children with SEN and that only the diagnosis is better then why is this a new phenomenon?

This exposes that lie 100%, clealy something is causing there to be more children with SEN.

JustAnotherTeacherHere · 03/07/2025 08:20

The argument again falls to "Well who should do it then?", "Whose responsibility is it?"

The answer is, school budgets should allow for schools to employ additional staff or at least to pay staff to do the role they're expected to do. I haven't had a TA at all for 6 years now and it's hard for many reasons. Just one of those reasons is that I'm early 50s and my periods are heavy and unpredictable and I can't even attend to my own toileting needs appropriately let alone anyone else's.

Thisismyalterego · 03/07/2025 08:24

I have been a TA for over 25 years. I've worked in two schools in that time. My contracts have always stated that personal care is part of my job. There is also a 'catch all' paragraph which states very clearly 'and anything else which the headteacher seems to be part of my role'. This was quoted at me in my first school when I queried whether making and serving tea to the staff every afternoon was really part of my job.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of toilet training by parents, how is it acceptable to leave a child sitting in its own mess until parent can get there to clean them up. Some parents at our school work I er an hour away or have jobs where they cannot just leave to go and sort out their child.

80smonster · 03/07/2025 08:25

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 08:14

Um, no.
Nice try belittling people though.

Nice try dodging a core aspect of your role - more like. Why don’t you retrain? In something erm, cleaner?

Kirbert2 · 03/07/2025 08:30

suburburban · 03/07/2025 08:16

Yes that’s what should happen and perhaps that would stop it happening as much

are staff excepted to follow them into the loo or use a changing mat?

are there proper facilities in schools

are most TAs employed now to support EHCP dc and if so are they not neglecting their duty with them if they are having to deal with this issue with another pupil?

My son's mainstream school has changing facilities to accommodate SEN children.

suburburban · 03/07/2025 08:34

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 03/07/2025 07:40

@Morgenrot25
I can't find the post where you said "They're sent to the bathroom, with their clean clothes and instructed to start changing and cleaning themselves. Most 6 year olds should manage that just fine. Teaching staff member waits outside."

It's funny because that counts as intimate care at our school. It is the last the step of progress. But some children, aged 6 or even older, are not ready for this step. They may need an adult to verbally guide them through the steps, they may need an adult to organize their clothes or do up buttons, they may need an adult to supervise wiping, they may need an adult to wipe, or put clothes on, or they may be in nappies. This is developmentally appropriate.

Now, you may say that this is different to what the OP is talking about, and you might be right, but neither of us really know. I totally support OP's right to refuse to support with intimate care.

Yes that’s when it would be too much

doing up buttons perhaps but not the wiping

ExpertArchFormat · 03/07/2025 08:37

@OneSpoonyGreyWasp If we are saying that there were always children with SEN and that only the diagnosis is better then why is this a new phenomenon?

This exposes that lie 100%, clealy something is causing there to be more children with SEN.

Not necessarily. If in former times it was seen as acceptable to traumatise, punish and cause harm to a child who is slow to learn potty training to minimise inconvenience to adults, rather than working within the best interests of the child, and if it was seen as acceptable to exclude a child from education until the learned this skill, then schools wouldn't have needed to cope with this. I would rather live in a world where children are properly looked after and have an inviolable right to education.

FMLLLLL · 03/07/2025 08:54

Violinist64 · 03/07/2025 07:48

Where did l say that? If you must know, l have an autistic adult son, whose needs were significant enough for him to be educated in a special school. He took longer to be dry than my other two children but was still dry day and night just before his third birthday. Bowel training was more difficult as, in his autistic mind, he felt he had to "go" at the same time each day and would soil his pants if the urge came at the "wrong" time of day until he was eight. Even so, he never did this at school, only at home. Toilet training is hard work - it is called training for a reason - but it is ultimately the parents' responsibility and should be done years before starting school unless there are physical or extreme learning disabilities.

Of course toilet training is a parents responsibility but none of us know (including the OP) whether this child has a medical issue or SEN causing the issue. So we don’t know if this is a toilet training issue.

elliejjtiny · 03/07/2025 09:04

Kirbert2 · 03/07/2025 08:30

My son's mainstream school has changing facilities to accommodate SEN children.

Yes, my son's does too. There are some jobs that involve cleaning up poo and wee and the OP has chosen one of those jobs. She should have had the proper training though. The TA's at my dc's school will all clean up children. Although a couple of the TA's are squeamish about certain things so they swap with someone else. Eg Mrs A can't stand the sight of blood and Miss B hates dealing with vomit so they will do a swap and Miss B won't deal with any vomit but she has to deal with double the cuts and grazes.

If OP doesn't want to clean children when they soil themselves, she either needs to make an arrangement with another TA like the above or find another job. Although i wouldn't recommend McDonalds because they have to clean up poo too, although on toilets, the floor etc, not on people, not sure if that makes it any easier.

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 09:08

ADreamIsAWishYourArseMakes · 03/07/2025 08:16

OK, so your answer is, one of us can't work?

Most jobs you can't leave at the drop of a hat several times a week. Lots of people commute for work, and rent/mortgages need paying.

I think you need to be clear on what the ask of parents is, it's not just popping in. The days of having someone at home or part time are gone for lots of families.

And let's not forget there's a child who is soiled and is going to have a sore bottom is they need to wait 30 minutes for a parent to come in.

My nurse colleague has two children with SEN, thankfully her school is understanding or I don't know how she'd work at all.

The education system isn't just about you/your child and your situation though, it's about the needs of all the children. Teaching staff taking time out to change a child who really should be able to change themselves, possibly 2 at a time, means the rest of the pupils suffer. It's this crazy level of entitlement which is the issue. A 6 year old may have an accident, most can definitely be taught (by PARENTS) to clean themselves up adequately.

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 09:09

80smonster · 03/07/2025 08:25

Nice try dodging a core aspect of your role - more like. Why don’t you retrain? In something erm, cleaner?

Eh?
Are you assuming I work in a school just because I am standing up for the TAs?

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 09:09

elliejjtiny · 03/07/2025 09:04

Yes, my son's does too. There are some jobs that involve cleaning up poo and wee and the OP has chosen one of those jobs. She should have had the proper training though. The TA's at my dc's school will all clean up children. Although a couple of the TA's are squeamish about certain things so they swap with someone else. Eg Mrs A can't stand the sight of blood and Miss B hates dealing with vomit so they will do a swap and Miss B won't deal with any vomit but she has to deal with double the cuts and grazes.

If OP doesn't want to clean children when they soil themselves, she either needs to make an arrangement with another TA like the above or find another job. Although i wouldn't recommend McDonalds because they have to clean up poo too, although on toilets, the floor etc, not on people, not sure if that makes it any easier.

OP hasn't chosen one of those jobs though, she's a TEACHING assistant, not a a carer.

BlackeyedSusan · 03/07/2025 09:11

Just because they don't have a diagnosis doesn't mean they don't have special needs. Or a medical condition.

School should have a system for this.

Hashbrownwithcheese · 03/07/2025 09:16

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 09:09

OP hasn't chosen one of those jobs though, she's a TEACHING assistant, not a a carer.

She has chosen to become a primary teacher in a mainstream school. The role involves teaching children and therefore an element of childcare and it includes disabled children. OP knows this. She should also aware that the school may choose to place her in reception, pre school or a SEN class if they see fit. There are plenty of roles in adult education if she feels this role is not for her.

ADreamIsAWishYourArseMakes · 03/07/2025 09:18

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 09:08

The education system isn't just about you/your child and your situation though, it's about the needs of all the children. Teaching staff taking time out to change a child who really should be able to change themselves, possibly 2 at a time, means the rest of the pupils suffer. It's this crazy level of entitlement which is the issue. A 6 year old may have an accident, most can definitely be taught (by PARENTS) to clean themselves up adequately.

If your kind has SEN or emerging SEN it's crazy entitlement that the school will support with toileting? Really?

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 09:23

Hashbrownwithcheese · 03/07/2025 09:16

She has chosen to become a primary teacher in a mainstream school. The role involves teaching children and therefore an element of childcare and it includes disabled children. OP knows this. She should also aware that the school may choose to place her in reception, pre school or a SEN class if they see fit. There are plenty of roles in adult education if she feels this role is not for her.

So you think it's ok for a 6 year old to regularly poop themselves (medical issues aside)?

Hashbrownwithcheese · 03/07/2025 09:27

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 09:23

So you think it's ok for a 6 year old to regularly poop themselves (medical issues aside)?

No, I take issues with the (medical issues aside) disclaimer everyone keeps adding. The DC clearly has medical issues or something else going on at home. Dealing with DC that have medical issues or issues at home are a normal part of school life.

Jabberwok · 03/07/2025 09:28

x2boys · 02/07/2025 21:01

Because knowingly leaving a child soiled is neglect
Lots of things won't be part of the job description, like a child vomiting over themselves etc but that's all part of caring for young children.

Very good point...that's Why mn is great you get to challenge how you think. Thank you.

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 09:30

ADreamIsAWishYourArseMakes · 03/07/2025 09:18

If your kind has SEN or emerging SEN it's crazy entitlement that the school will support with toileting? Really?

Why are you suddenly focusing on SEN?
Several posters have stated several times that this isn't in reference to those with a care plan or SEN.

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 09:32

Hashbrownwithcheese · 03/07/2025 09:27

No, I take issues with the (medical issues aside) disclaimer everyone keeps adding. The DC clearly has medical issues or something else going on at home. Dealing with DC that have medical issues or issues at home are a normal part of school life.

You have no idea whether this child has medical issues or not, none of us do, but even some children with medical issues/SEN will be able to clean themselves up (with the TA outside, not actually physically helping them).
The point is that OP should not be forced to clean up the poop of random children, and that she is employed for the whole class, not just random children who poo themselves. The entitlement is astonishing.

ADreamIsAWishYourArseMakes · 03/07/2025 09:32

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 09:30

Why are you suddenly focusing on SEN?
Several posters have stated several times that this isn't in reference to those with a care plan or SEN.

Because at 5 or 6 many SENs will be emerging and plans won't be in place.

80smonster · 03/07/2025 09:37

Morgenrot25 · 03/07/2025 09:09

Eh?
Are you assuming I work in a school just because I am standing up for the TAs?

Working with very old or young people- shit and piss is fully expected. No one is arm wrestling people into these positions, they are choosing them. They can also choose not to do them…

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