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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For refusing to change a 6 year old?

1000 replies

Bernie6678 · 02/07/2025 19:48

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
NautilusLionfish · 03/07/2025 05:23

Eastendboysandwestendgirls · 02/07/2025 19:57

Bit different as you say they have no SEN (though a 6yo having multiple accidents would suggest something was going on, especially if previously dry). However, I would be very unimpressed if a child in my care was left to sit wet or dirty because noone wanted to change them. I also get very fed up with people quoting their job description at me when the bottom line is care for children. If you were one of my TAs, I would be arranging training for you pronto to ensure you were able to carry out all parts of the job effectively. Seeing as you don't feel you should be doing it as a TA, will you be happy to do it if you qualify as a teacher?

But she also has no intimate care training. That could be a risk in terms of safeguarding etc?
I was at a school meeting for kids starting reception. They emphasised that kids should be able to wipe their bottoms by reception cos teachers and TAs can't do this (safeguarding). Afterwards we sat around mingling when 2 or 3 parents started discussing how they haven't been training or supporting their kids with toilet hygiene, wiping bottoms etc. So now they were panicking and hoping to train the kids over the summer. So what were these parents expecting (knowing their kids were starting school, and are already in nursery and/or preschool)? They must have thought oh well the teachers will do it.

NautilusLionfish · 03/07/2025 05:29

Dummydimmer · 03/07/2025 02:12

I followed this thread with interest. I went to school at 4 because I had taught myself to read. I also had tummy trouble and still have, unclear diagnosis. I trained as a Social worker and as an undergraduate worked in care homes with elderly dementia patients. I cleaned poo, washed bums etc. To me it was part of caring. As a Social worker, qualified I frequently helped people to learn to keep themselves and their homes clean. Helping them to develop self respect. It wasn't part of my job description to take out rubbish, but it prevented a health hazzard. I later went into adult protection ( as it was then called) The role was fluid and unpredictable, by it's very nature. If you don't care about people or children, do a different job , not teaching.

But you were trained for it and in am adult care its expected to a large extent because that's why these adults are there. We should be preparing kids to function and for personal growth. School needs to sit down with parents and come up with a care plan, provide people like op with training etc

Girltoddler · 03/07/2025 05:34

Eastendboysandwestendgirls · 02/07/2025 19:57

Bit different as you say they have no SEN (though a 6yo having multiple accidents would suggest something was going on, especially if previously dry). However, I would be very unimpressed if a child in my care was left to sit wet or dirty because noone wanted to change them. I also get very fed up with people quoting their job description at me when the bottom line is care for children. If you were one of my TAs, I would be arranging training for you pronto to ensure you were able to carry out all parts of the job effectively. Seeing as you don't feel you should be doing it as a TA, will you be happy to do it if you qualify as a teacher?

Parents need to come in to school and change their child if they’re not toilet trained and they have regular accidents. It’s not the teacher or TA’s job to change a child unless they’re an SEN TA. The teacher’s job is to teach 30 children and the TA’s job is to support that teacher.

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 05:44

So what were these parents expecting (knowing their kids were starting school, and are already in nursery and/or preschool)? They must have thought oh well the teachers will do it.

Fucking hell 😳 @NautilusLionfish

This has been one of the most eye-opening threads.

Francestein · 03/07/2025 05:48

At that age the kid needs to be medically assessed to rule out things like encopresis/megacolon, bowel or nerve problems, or even (god forbid) SA. It is actually very important that the school makes it a matter of urgency.

mathanxiety · 03/07/2025 05:51

Barrenfieldoffucks · 02/07/2025 19:54

Difficult element is the 'no SEN'. At their age it may well ot yet be diagnosed, and what you're describing may be a sign of SEN anyway.

I would say you need to stick to the lack of training part, for the kids' protection as much as anything. Lots of people on minimum wage deal with poo, and worse. At 6 many kids would need help cleaning up after an accident, but most wouldn't be having regular accidents.

Edited

Agree.

In fact, the lower the pay, the higher the likelihood of dealing with poo.

The lack of training is a significant argument. They are going to insist you do the training though, and after that you will have no choice.

The school should be working with the parents to get the soiling under control.

They should also be referring the child for assessment for SEN.

mathanxiety · 03/07/2025 05:53

Agree with @NeedZzzzzssssassessment of the cause of all this.

bigvig · 03/07/2025 05:55

IwasDueANameChange · 02/07/2025 20:13

Yanbu. It shouldn't be a requirement to routinely changed a soiled older child in an education setting.

If its a medical issue there should be an ehcp with provision for personal care.

This! I would step in in exceptional circumstances just to help out the child. However as this is a regular occurance the parents need to be contacted to deal with this. If there are medical reasons then the child would get care funded.

mathanxiety · 03/07/2025 05:56

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 04:01

No. It is not for the minimum wage worker with no training in the safe personal hygiene of children who are defectating and urinating in their clothes at school to do this.

The school and the parents can do that, and she can do as she has been doing - her own job.

Agree!

florizel13 · 03/07/2025 05:57

Not unreasonable, if no special needs. Children used to have to be potty trained to be able to go to nursery aged 3 back when my kids were small, let alone school!

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 05:58

bigvig · 03/07/2025 05:55

This! I would step in in exceptional circumstances just to help out the child. However as this is a regular occurance the parents need to be contacted to deal with this. If there are medical reasons then the child would get care funded.

Agree with this, upthread a teacher was saying they'd find out the cause of this. Sounds like in this case they can't be bothered and happy for the TA's to deal with it instead. Everyone is letting this poor child down.

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 05:59

mathanxiety · 03/07/2025 05:51

Agree.

In fact, the lower the pay, the higher the likelihood of dealing with poo.

The lack of training is a significant argument. They are going to insist you do the training though, and after that you will have no choice.

The school should be working with the parents to get the soiling under control.

They should also be referring the child for assessment for SEN.

She does not have to work anywhere that she needs to wipe up shit and poo if she does not want to and if they ask her to do the training she can then decide if she wants to continue with the job, or not.

Nobody can be made legally or morally to clean people covered in piss and shit. But if she agrees to take on the new job role after training and safeguarding measures have been put in place, that will no longer be an issue.

Insisting that TAs in mainstream schools must do personal care for six year old children who regularly defecate and urinate in their clothes is simply not going to become a thing, however much some parents would love that to happen.

In fact, TAs classroom based TAs are a relatively new addition to schools, in the 80s and 90s there was no such thing as a dedicated TA per class in mainstream schools, even in primary. That could easily happen again if this sort of relentless pressure from parents continues.

mathanxiety · 03/07/2025 06:06

Trying2bMindful · 03/07/2025 02:13

@Boddica2000so is it the responsibility of the teacher and the other TA? Why not the OP?

it is a collective responsibility to support kids who are there in front of them. If the OP was on her own with a group of kids it would be her job if the school has no one else on site and on call to provide that support.

if she becomes a teacher and her TA refuses then she wil have to do it herself. She has a duty to each and every child.

yes. It’s not what teachers sign up for
perhaps the school leadership should hire someone to support the SEN kids (and yes if a child is unable to use the toilet or has regular accidents then it is a type of SEN)

the school have to treat the kids with respect and so that means dealing with accidents. Because the school is really the adults that work within it. Which includes this TA.

why should she not step out of the class? Accompany a child to the loo? Make sure they have a bag of spare clean clothes and a bag for dirty with them? And then encourage them through the door to get changed?

im not saying she should be wiping bums as that is intimate care for which there needs to be a plan in place, including designated staff named and suitably trained.

But what is meant by "support"?

What you're suggesting is plastering over the cracks. Saying, "Whoops! Here we go again", and handing the child dry clothes is not forward progress for anyone, which I would argue is the aim of schools wrt the students.

Support in the case of a child who routinely soils their clothing means a hard conversation with parents about training or lack thereof at home, diet, possible medical issues, and possible SEN, with a referral for assessment. Support should always mean clear plan and timetable for moving a child forward, in other words.

Thschool.should be ready and willing to inform social services if there are signs the parents have no interest or willingness to play a part in moving the child forward. It is neglect.

mathanxiety · 03/07/2025 06:16

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 05:59

She does not have to work anywhere that she needs to wipe up shit and poo if she does not want to and if they ask her to do the training she can then decide if she wants to continue with the job, or not.

Nobody can be made legally or morally to clean people covered in piss and shit. But if she agrees to take on the new job role after training and safeguarding measures have been put in place, that will no longer be an issue.

Insisting that TAs in mainstream schools must do personal care for six year old children who regularly defecate and urinate in their clothes is simply not going to become a thing, however much some parents would love that to happen.

In fact, TAs classroom based TAs are a relatively new addition to schools, in the 80s and 90s there was no such thing as a dedicated TA per class in mainstream schools, even in primary. That could easily happen again if this sort of relentless pressure from parents continues.

Edited

I agree.

And actually, if there's a contract and the OP is correct that there's no mention of intimate care, the school might not be able to insist she does the training (or performs the task without the requisite training). If there's no clause in the contract stating the school can require her to train to perform duties that significantly alter her job description (i.e. taking her out of the classroom, dealing with human waste as a nursing aide or personal care assistant for the elderly would be expected to do), then I think she could say No.

After all, what's to stop them assigning her to janitor duties or lunch lady duty if they can change her role to that extent...

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 03/07/2025 06:19

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 04:01

No. It is not for the minimum wage worker with no training in the safe personal hygiene of children who are defectating and urinating in their clothes at school to do this.

The school and the parents can do that, and she can do as she has been doing - her own job.

"the school" is not a person and is unable to change a child.

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 06:21

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 03/07/2025 06:19

"the school" is not a person and is unable to change a child.

Irrelevant. The OP is also unable to give intimate personal care to a child covered in piss or shit as she has no training in the matter and no safeguarding has been put in place. So whomever is in charge at such things at "the school" can sort that out.

ThejoyofNC · 03/07/2025 06:21

YANBU and well done for refusing.

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 06:24

mathanxiety · 03/07/2025 06:16

I agree.

And actually, if there's a contract and the OP is correct that there's no mention of intimate care, the school might not be able to insist she does the training (or performs the task without the requisite training). If there's no clause in the contract stating the school can require her to train to perform duties that significantly alter her job description (i.e. taking her out of the classroom, dealing with human waste as a nursing aide or personal care assistant for the elderly would be expected to do), then I think she could say No.

After all, what's to stop them assigning her to janitor duties or lunch lady duty if they can change her role to that extent...

Yep. The whole concept of thinking you can force a minimum wage employee working at school with zero training who has NOT agreed to do this to give personal care to children covered in pee and poo is beyond nuts. Mumsnet has lost its collective mind on this thread.

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 03/07/2025 06:24

Girltoddler · 03/07/2025 05:34

Parents need to come in to school and change their child if they’re not toilet trained and they have regular accidents. It’s not the teacher or TA’s job to change a child unless they’re an SEN TA. The teacher’s job is to teach 30 children and the TA’s job is to support that teacher.

A TA's job is to support the children, not the teacher.

It is illegal discrimination to make parents come to change their child.

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 06:26

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 06:21

Irrelevant. The OP is also unable to give intimate personal care to a child covered in piss or shit as she has no training in the matter and no safeguarding has been put in place. So whomever is in charge at such things at "the school" can sort that out.

Agree, in this case "the school" is the Royal "we" taking credit but doing nothing. So "the school" can start doing the things it's agreed to do and not passing it off to the TA's

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 06:28

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 03/07/2025 06:24

A TA's job is to support the children, not the teacher.

It is illegal discrimination to make parents come to change their child.

Lol. It is really, really, really not. No more than it is "illegal" or "discrimination" to insist parents come into mainstream schools to pick up their sick kids or to exclude kids from schools for a variety of perfectly legal reasons.

What planet are the "Parents for forcing minimum wage employees to clean up shit covered children brigade" actually on :D :D :D

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 03/07/2025 06:29

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 05:58

Agree with this, upthread a teacher was saying they'd find out the cause of this. Sounds like in this case they can't be bothered and happy for the TA's to deal with it instead. Everyone is letting this poor child down.

There is no evidence that the teacher and other staff haven't addressed it with parents

OP has only said that she isn't aware of any SEN. Therefore she won't be aware of the conversations and support that has been put in for these children and their parents.

She is within her rights to refuse to support with intimate care, but someone needs to if there are further incidents.

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 03/07/2025 06:30

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 06:28

Lol. It is really, really, really not. No more than it is "illegal" or "discrimination" to insist parents come into mainstream schools to pick up their sick kids or to exclude kids from schools for a variety of perfectly legal reasons.

What planet are the "Parents for forcing minimum wage employees to clean up shit covered children brigade" actually on :D :D :D

It is discrimination.

It is illegal.

I am not saying that the OP can be forced to change children. But I know the law.

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 03/07/2025 06:31

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 06:26

Agree, in this case "the school" is the Royal "we" taking credit but doing nothing. So "the school" can start doing the things it's agreed to do and not passing it off to the TA's

Who?

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 06:32

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 03/07/2025 06:30

It is discrimination.

It is illegal.

I am not saying that the OP can be forced to change children. But I know the law.

No, you don't, I'm afraid. I do, though.

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