Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For refusing to change a 6 year old?

1000 replies

Bernie6678 · 02/07/2025 19:48

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
AutumnFog · 03/07/2025 01:39

I wouldn't even really feel comfortable cleaning my niece or nephew for a poo accident at that age, their parent should be going in for the kids dignity. Mine would've been humiliated by a teacher doing/seeing that at that age.

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 01:40

AutumnFog · 03/07/2025 01:39

I wouldn't even really feel comfortable cleaning my niece or nephew for a poo accident at that age, their parent should be going in for the kids dignity. Mine would've been humiliated by a teacher doing/seeing that at that age.

It's fair to assume that for these kids it's normal so dignity won't be an issue

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 01:41

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 01:26

You are absolutely correct. Say no OP, if more people do something will have to change. You've already said the TA has gone off sick, the more Senior staff won't do it, so they're picking on the lowest qualified and paid. They are also appealing to peoples better nature, because let's face it, all of us would struggle to let a child suffer. As disgusted as I'd be, I also would want to clean up the poor kid. Stand up for yourself!

Yes, me too, but such a job can actually be hazardous and damaging to health. Cleaning up faeces and urine requires proper training and PPE along with care for the child's physical safety.

Issues include bacterial infections, viral pathogens, parasitic contamination, toxin exposure, respiratory risks and antibiotic resistant bacteria.

It's simply not the job of ANY person to clean up other people's faeces and urine or faecal and urine covered clothes unless they are trained with safeguarding in place and have agreed to it specifically.

The entitlement of some of these comments is absolutely off the charts.

AutumnFog · 03/07/2025 01:42

Caduz · 03/07/2025 00:43

Unfortunately it’s an epidemic in the Uk post pandemic. So many parents aren’t toilet training their children! I am so glad it wasn’t a thing when I did TA work pre-2016 because ain’t no way I’d be changing nappies for 6 year olds.

This country needs to get a grip. Bring back sure start centres or whatever they need to do, because it’s getting out of hand how some parents are just not parenting! And it’s been normalised partly because there’s not enough pushback from most schools. If more staff took your stance maybe things would have to change

www.theguardian.com/education/2024/feb/28/one-in-four-school-starters-in-england-and-wales-not-toilet-trained-say-teachers

I don't understand how the pandemic worsened it. Our second DC turned 2 at the start of the pandemic and potty trained quicker than our eldest because we were home all the time.
Though I wonder if it's more coincided with financial struggles since the pandemic meaning more parents working more hours?

Yoodle50 · 03/07/2025 01:45

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 01:26

You are absolutely correct. Say no OP, if more people do something will have to change. You've already said the TA has gone off sick, the more Senior staff won't do it, so they're picking on the lowest qualified and paid. They are also appealing to peoples better nature, because let's face it, all of us would struggle to let a child suffer. As disgusted as I'd be, I also would want to clean up the poor kid. Stand up for yourself!

The thing is the OP is responsible of course she is but ultimately the school is negligent and the parents even more so and whilst the legislation ultimately puts the responsibility on the parent where that fails the school has higher responsibility to make sure that child is looked after and so my biggest point is the schools should be far more robust in making reports to the local authority for the parents failing

Kirbert2 · 03/07/2025 01:45

AutumnFog · 03/07/2025 01:39

I wouldn't even really feel comfortable cleaning my niece or nephew for a poo accident at that age, their parent should be going in for the kids dignity. Mine would've been humiliated by a teacher doing/seeing that at that age.

My son isn't humiliated because he knows it isn't his fault and that it can't be helped. He was also part of the meeting when putting together his intimate care plan and was able to say who he felt most comfortable with changing him at school which was taken into account when finalising his intimate care plan.

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 01:48

AutumnFog · 03/07/2025 01:42

I don't understand how the pandemic worsened it. Our second DC turned 2 at the start of the pandemic and potty trained quicker than our eldest because we were home all the time.
Though I wonder if it's more coincided with financial struggles since the pandemic meaning more parents working more hours?

Because the pandemic gave people alot of leeway during an uncertain time and rightly so, but some people now use that as an ongoing excuse. It's not just this, entitlement is off the scale everywhere. Standards have also been declining, but this has probably exacerbated the issue.

DrPrunesqualer · 03/07/2025 01:50

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 00:55

I think it's due to nursery too, many parents don't do much of anything now when some kids spend most of their waking hours there. It's also entitlement and different standards, I've seen posts on here before where a parent is late to start toilet training and other posters have told them not to worry as they will sort it out at school. Zero care, and zero responsibility. It's neglect, but they don't seem to see it.

Then of course you have posts complaining why schools don't teach more basic things instead of maths 🥴

Perhaps schools need to have a dedicated classroom for these children, PP has posted it is now 1 in 4 who are starting school without being toilet trained so it's not like there will be a shortage of children. Maybe then parents will be incentivised to step up, although I suspect not. It would be interesting to see comparisons of these basic skill levels in other countries, especially non-Western ones

Edited

Or perhaps schools refuse to take kids that aren’t toilet trained. A letter before a place is offered by the LC explaining expectations and then parents confirming prior to acceptance.
Our kids were required to be toilet trained before reception. The school wouldn’t take them otherwise.

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 01:52

DrPrunesqualer · 03/07/2025 01:50

Or perhaps schools refuse to take kids that aren’t toilet trained. A letter before a place is offered by the LC explaining expectations and then parents confirming prior to acceptance.
Our kids were required to be toilet trained before reception. The school wouldn’t take them otherwise.

Either way something will have to give. The problem will only increase. They'll probably have to start employing a full time nappy changer!

jandalsinsummer · 03/07/2025 01:59

scoobysnaxx · 02/07/2025 20:03

You’re absolutely right OP.
kids that age shouldn’t be having regular accidents.
It’s not your job to clean them up neither the teachers.

stick to your guns. It’s not in your contract, you have no experience or training and it’s not your job or theirs.

don’t let them make you feel unreasonable

This

Hopefully people stop trying to bully you into doing it.

such a shame for the kids that they are starting school when they can’t go to the loo.

DrPrunesqualer · 03/07/2025 02:00

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 01:52

Either way something will have to give. The problem will only increase. They'll probably have to start employing a full time nappy changer!

Your mention of nappies had made me think
The availability of larger pull ups hasn’t helped at all. Perhaps these should only be available from a pharmacy If a child has a medical condition.

Dummydimmer · 03/07/2025 02:12

I followed this thread with interest. I went to school at 4 because I had taught myself to read. I also had tummy trouble and still have, unclear diagnosis. I trained as a Social worker and as an undergraduate worked in care homes with elderly dementia patients. I cleaned poo, washed bums etc. To me it was part of caring. As a Social worker, qualified I frequently helped people to learn to keep themselves and their homes clean. Helping them to develop self respect. It wasn't part of my job description to take out rubbish, but it prevented a health hazzard. I later went into adult protection ( as it was then called) The role was fluid and unpredictable, by it's very nature. If you don't care about people or children, do a different job , not teaching.

Trying2bMindful · 03/07/2025 02:13

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 01:19

None of this is relevant to the OP's question though.

She is 100 percent correct she is not responsible for cleaning shitty and pissy arses or shitty and pissy clothes unless it is specifically in her job description with training and safeguarding in place.

Edited

@Boddica2000so is it the responsibility of the teacher and the other TA? Why not the OP?

it is a collective responsibility to support kids who are there in front of them. If the OP was on her own with a group of kids it would be her job if the school has no one else on site and on call to provide that support.

if she becomes a teacher and her TA refuses then she wil have to do it herself. She has a duty to each and every child.

yes. It’s not what teachers sign up for
perhaps the school leadership should hire someone to support the SEN kids (and yes if a child is unable to use the toilet or has regular accidents then it is a type of SEN)

the school have to treat the kids with respect and so that means dealing with accidents. Because the school is really the adults that work within it. Which includes this TA.

why should she not step out of the class? Accompany a child to the loo? Make sure they have a bag of spare clean clothes and a bag for dirty with them? And then encourage them through the door to get changed?

im not saying she should be wiping bums as that is intimate care for which there needs to be a plan in place, including designated staff named and suitably trained.

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 02:14

Dummydimmer · 03/07/2025 02:12

I followed this thread with interest. I went to school at 4 because I had taught myself to read. I also had tummy trouble and still have, unclear diagnosis. I trained as a Social worker and as an undergraduate worked in care homes with elderly dementia patients. I cleaned poo, washed bums etc. To me it was part of caring. As a Social worker, qualified I frequently helped people to learn to keep themselves and their homes clean. Helping them to develop self respect. It wasn't part of my job description to take out rubbish, but it prevented a health hazzard. I later went into adult protection ( as it was then called) The role was fluid and unpredictable, by it's very nature. If you don't care about people or children, do a different job , not teaching.

Nobody has suggested she doesn't care about children or people.

She simply hasn't agreed to wipe up shit and piss that she hasn't been trained to deal with or agreed to deal with.

Hope this helps.

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 02:16

Trying2bMindful · 03/07/2025 02:13

@Boddica2000so is it the responsibility of the teacher and the other TA? Why not the OP?

it is a collective responsibility to support kids who are there in front of them. If the OP was on her own with a group of kids it would be her job if the school has no one else on site and on call to provide that support.

if she becomes a teacher and her TA refuses then she wil have to do it herself. She has a duty to each and every child.

yes. It’s not what teachers sign up for
perhaps the school leadership should hire someone to support the SEN kids (and yes if a child is unable to use the toilet or has regular accidents then it is a type of SEN)

the school have to treat the kids with respect and so that means dealing with accidents. Because the school is really the adults that work within it. Which includes this TA.

why should she not step out of the class? Accompany a child to the loo? Make sure they have a bag of spare clean clothes and a bag for dirty with them? And then encourage them through the door to get changed?

im not saying she should be wiping bums as that is intimate care for which there needs to be a plan in place, including designated staff named and suitably trained.

Why are you asking irrelevant questions that are already fully asked and answered?

As stated, if you are not trained to and have not agreed to wipe up piss and shit or pissy and shitty clothes, then it is not your moral or legal requirement to do so.

As stated, those who are trained to wipe up piss and shit or pissy and shitty clothes will have this in their role description and been provided adequate training, safeguarding put in place and PPE.

If other people want to clean up piss and shit without training or safeguarding that is an entirely different thread and not the OPs issue. If they have received training and safeguarding discussed and have agreed to clean up piss and shit, good for them

It's just not that complicated.

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 02:38

Dummydimmer · 03/07/2025 02:12

I followed this thread with interest. I went to school at 4 because I had taught myself to read. I also had tummy trouble and still have, unclear diagnosis. I trained as a Social worker and as an undergraduate worked in care homes with elderly dementia patients. I cleaned poo, washed bums etc. To me it was part of caring. As a Social worker, qualified I frequently helped people to learn to keep themselves and their homes clean. Helping them to develop self respect. It wasn't part of my job description to take out rubbish, but it prevented a health hazzard. I later went into adult protection ( as it was then called) The role was fluid and unpredictable, by it's very nature. If you don't care about people or children, do a different job , not teaching.

That's amazing that you did that, and I'm sure the people appreciated you so much. That however is a large part of a care role. It is not part of a teaching role, nor part of OPs job description. If the head teachers and politicians were also getting stuck in cleaning soiled bums, and if the parents actually cared perhaps she'd be more inclined. But they're not, so neither should OP. The more people that stand up and say no like OP, the better. I bet the parents of many of these kids also would not be thrilled if suddenly they were required to clean bums or dirty toilets as part of their jobs either.

NeedZzzzzssss · 03/07/2025 02:56

Trying2bMindful · 03/07/2025 02:13

@Boddica2000so is it the responsibility of the teacher and the other TA? Why not the OP?

it is a collective responsibility to support kids who are there in front of them. If the OP was on her own with a group of kids it would be her job if the school has no one else on site and on call to provide that support.

if she becomes a teacher and her TA refuses then she wil have to do it herself. She has a duty to each and every child.

yes. It’s not what teachers sign up for
perhaps the school leadership should hire someone to support the SEN kids (and yes if a child is unable to use the toilet or has regular accidents then it is a type of SEN)

the school have to treat the kids with respect and so that means dealing with accidents. Because the school is really the adults that work within it. Which includes this TA.

why should she not step out of the class? Accompany a child to the loo? Make sure they have a bag of spare clean clothes and a bag for dirty with them? And then encourage them through the door to get changed?

im not saying she should be wiping bums as that is intimate care for which there needs to be a plan in place, including designated staff named and suitably trained.

Because it's not in her job description. That's the whole point of a job description. The TA has gone off sick, that should tell you all you need to know. It's not the collective responsibility for school staff to clean up the shit for parents who are too lazy to toilet train their children, nor should the other children be affected either. If the head had to do it or the parents had to come in the issue would very quickly go away.

pincklop · 03/07/2025 03:19

No adult should do personal care alone. That takes 2 adults away from supporting other kids for a while. A teacher can’t leave the other 30 kids unattended to take them to the toilet. Whatever situation it always affects other children’s support and learning time.

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 03/07/2025 03:33

Yoodle50 · 03/07/2025 01:45

The thing is the OP is responsible of course she is but ultimately the school is negligent and the parents even more so and whilst the legislation ultimately puts the responsibility on the parent where that fails the school has higher responsibility to make sure that child is looked after and so my biggest point is the schools should be far more robust in making reports to the local authority for the parents failing

Reports to the local authority? If you mean social services, lack of toilet training falls way, way below the threshold for intervention.

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 03/07/2025 03:37

DrPrunesqualer · 03/07/2025 01:50

Or perhaps schools refuse to take kids that aren’t toilet trained. A letter before a place is offered by the LC explaining expectations and then parents confirming prior to acceptance.
Our kids were required to be toilet trained before reception. The school wouldn’t take them otherwise.

That would be discrimination and it's illegal.

aurynne · 03/07/2025 03:53

God almighty, with parental attitudes like the ones on this thread, teachers leaving the profession in droves, and TAs learning about the realities of taking care of the current generation of children whose parents think that a 6 year old pissing and shitting themselves is "normal", good luck when there are no teachers and no TAs in any class at all.

OP, I would do exactly what some of these dickwads have told you to do and look for a more fulfilling job. And hopefully one that pays better.

Lookinglooking · 03/07/2025 03:59

One of the issues is that in many areas bladder and bowel services are so stretched that they will not accept referrals until the child is 5- with waiting lists and then investigations etc it could well be that the child is well into year 1 by the time they get a diagnosis and treatments can often take a while to become effective. Whether the child has a medical reason for their incontinence or delayed toilet training for whatever reason it's not okay to leave them in wet/soiled clothes, and shaming them is only going to make the problem worse. They also deserve an education just as much as any other child! I would be so upset for my child if they had an accident and the staff refused to change them! I think this is for you and the teacher/staff body to work out a plan of how to care for these children safely and with dignity.

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 04:01

Lookinglooking · 03/07/2025 03:59

One of the issues is that in many areas bladder and bowel services are so stretched that they will not accept referrals until the child is 5- with waiting lists and then investigations etc it could well be that the child is well into year 1 by the time they get a diagnosis and treatments can often take a while to become effective. Whether the child has a medical reason for their incontinence or delayed toilet training for whatever reason it's not okay to leave them in wet/soiled clothes, and shaming them is only going to make the problem worse. They also deserve an education just as much as any other child! I would be so upset for my child if they had an accident and the staff refused to change them! I think this is for you and the teacher/staff body to work out a plan of how to care for these children safely and with dignity.

No. It is not for the minimum wage worker with no training in the safe personal hygiene of children who are defectating and urinating in their clothes at school to do this.

The school and the parents can do that, and she can do as she has been doing - her own job.

Boddica2000 · 03/07/2025 04:19

aurynne · 03/07/2025 03:53

God almighty, with parental attitudes like the ones on this thread, teachers leaving the profession in droves, and TAs learning about the realities of taking care of the current generation of children whose parents think that a 6 year old pissing and shitting themselves is "normal", good luck when there are no teachers and no TAs in any class at all.

OP, I would do exactly what some of these dickwads have told you to do and look for a more fulfilling job. And hopefully one that pays better.

Yup. There's a great deal of pretence on this thread that this is normal. It is absolutely not, it was never, ever normal. The odd accident, sure. Six year olds wearing nappies to school and regularly shitting and pissing in their clothes however has been almost unheard of in mainstream schools until very recently.

When I was a TA, I originally intended to train to be a teacher. Six months in I knew there was no way I'd want to tolerate the parents - and that was 2006-2012 when nobody was trying to normalise kids regularly shitting and pissing in their clothes aged 6. I just studied and trained in a different field and got out of there as fast as I could.

If were the OP, I'd see these entitled and ridiculous responses and look elsewhere for work.

whynotmereally · 03/07/2025 04:39

Ds has Sen and was in pull ups in reception and still had occasional accidents upto end of year 1. The ta would take him to the toilet and encourage him to clean himself up as it wasn’t part of their role to change bums.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.