Unpleasant altercation - who was the most unreasonable?

[zerofeeling]

Took my dogs out today and was trying to park in a small space between two cars on a country lane. As I was inching back to fit into the space I heard a loud crunch 😖

The two men from the car behind had just set off on their walk, as I got out of my car one of them was heading back towards me shouting why did I try to park in such a small space. I said sorry and inspected the front of his car - couldn't see any damage at all, and apart from a tiny paint scuff nothing on my car. I said to him 'i can't see any damage, it doesn't look like I hit you'
Man just glanced over at his car then asked me for my details, I asked is that necessary and said again there's no damage. He said that's not the point you have to give your details if you've been in a collision. He was much taller than me and sort of fronting up to me repeating that he wanted my details and me refusing, saying I don't think it was a collision, I think I might have hit something underneath my car. (For info my Mum and a friend have both been scammed on their insurance by people who claimed all kinds of things after very minor prangs)

Then he took an ID wallet out of his pocket and flipped it open to show a photo and badge and said he's Police. I couldn't tell if it was genuine or not. He held his phone up and said he's filming me refusing to comply with the law.
By this time the other man had come back and also filming me and I started to worry - I'm in a secluded area, with two men who are much bigger than me. I told them I felt intimidated and are they trying to scam me?

I got in my car and tried to shut the door but 1st man held onto it to prevent me. I asked if he's trying to detain me and he said no but I will if you don't give me your details, I've identified myself to you as a police officer. I said you've got no right to detain me. Eventually he let go of the door and I had to turn the car round as the lane is a dead end. Once I turned round he said again that I'm breaking the law by refusing to give my details after a collision and he started to recite the Caution they give when you're arrested! I drove away very shaken up, no idea what consequences to expect.

Yes, that's what happened and yes, I'm sure it is a GDPR breach not to mention a significant breach of his Code of Conduct.

"yes, I'm sure it is a GDPR breach not to mention a significant breach of his Code of Conduct."

You're "SURE" you caused no damage too. How do you know HE accessed the system and looked up your details?

She didn't offer it as a defence. There's no defence to a statutory offence, but you still have to hear the facts of the case.

But if a strange man opened your car door and told you to get out, you'd just shut your door and lock it and sit there while he was stood right next to your window shouting?

I personally wouldn't stay and risk it escalating.

And if a man told me he was a policeman, I wouldn't believe him unless he at least had another uniformed officer with him and they could both provide ID.

Let's not forget, in the cases of Wayne Couzens and David Carrick, both men were actual policemen, which made zero difference to the harm they were able to inflict on women.

I'm on a London bench so all cases I sit on are charged by the Met. I've seen cases where the police have behaved in appalling ways. It's really shaken my trust in them. While there are absolutely good and decent coppers, I have had a crystal clear insight over the years into how riven with misogyny they are as an organisation.

I did a DVPO recently after a man had assaulted a woman on the street outside their shared address. The policeman seeking the DVPO suggested the man be prevented from entering the house but thought it was reasonable to agree to him still parking his works van in the parking space behind the house! Just unbelievable really. As long as he's not in the house he's no threat? Even though the original offence happened outside the house?!

So myopic. It's maddening. Needless to say we amended the order before granting it.

No idea. Never done it. According to a quick google, it doesn’t matter whether there was any damage to either car, if the details were asked for they should have been given - technically it’s leaving the scene of an accident. Can have repercussions if damage is later confirmed on the vehicle hit - both in terms of insurance and any legal consequences.

I agree that if OP felt unsafe or threatened it was right to leave as soon as possible, but l don’t understand why she didn’t just give her details, take appropriate photos and leave. Much quicker than the exchange that seemingly took place.

that sounds like a terrible experience. I would report them to local police station. i understand people get irate of one feels damage done to property - however they should of identified where the damage was before they demanded details and started to film you. Also I'm not sure they can just film you if they not on duty.

Did you miss the bit where they stopped op
shutting her car door

I’d assume his concern is if he goes through his insurance he’ll have to pay his excess and may struggle to get it back. So he’d rather go through OPs insurance but guess he needs her insurance details for this.

some crazy woman hit me while I was stationary a few years ago. Paused and carried on with the sound of ripping metal as she dragged the entire side of her car across my back corner. I turned round, caught up with her and spent two miles alongside her on a dual carriageway beeping at her and pointing at her to pull over while she pretended to be oblivious. She did eventually stop, looked at all the damage to both cars and said she didn’t think she’d hit me. I was raging. 😂. Eventually got her name and number. Rang the number in front of her, wasn’t her number. Finally got the correct number. Took loads of photos. Got a quote for the damage. She then blocked my mobile but stupid bint hadn’t blocked my house phone. Had to tell her she had 24 hours to give me her insurance details or I was reporting her for a hit and run. she did then text me her insurance details and added if I contacted her again she’d do me for harassment 😂😂😂Funnily enough her insurance paid out no problem for the damage.

Sadly these people drive amongst us and have no shame trying to avoid doing the right thing.

Presumably to inform her she was about to commit an offence by doing a hit and run?

You’re all incredibly weird.

I’ve had a prang or two before where my bumper has gone over curb and made a sound & or hit a car and paint on my car but their car completely fine.

If we are to believe this story then we must believe all the facts. OP states there was no damage to either car - end of story.

There is not such thing as damaging another car in a minor prang and the damage not being visible. Even if that is a thing - I don’t know think we have the systems in place for invisible damage & proving its origins.

But if a strange man opened your car door and told you to get out, you'd just shut your door and lock it and sit there while he was stood right next to your window shouting?

A strange man who identified himself as a policeman while I was sat in the drivers seat of my car, drunk, with the engine running?

Yes I would, I certainly wouldn't drive away drunk off my head, If I didn't know he was a policeman yes, I'd lock the door, ask to see his ID and if I thought it was a fake I'd have rang the police, or rang my mates in the pub, no need to escalate anything. But I would sit there and let it play out safe in my car, if I really thought he was out to hurt me I would have locked the door and called the police.

Imagine that policeman that day, he's probably seen more fatalities because of drunk driving then he cares to remember, men, women, kids, innocent victims, seeing a woman clearly drunk, falling out with her mates, stomp out to her car get in and start the engine.. as an off duty policeman what would you do??

You could call it in but they may not be in time to get there, or you go over, state who you are (putting yourself ON DUTY) and demand she gets out of the car for drink driving offences.

She only panicked BECAUSE she was drunk and she had done something wrong, exactly the same as OP (without the drunk bit).. if you've done nothing wrong, why would you need to run away when you have a perfectly safe car to lock yourself in with a mobile phone to call for help.. just bloody excuses for trying not to face the consequences of your actions IMO.

"I personally wouldn't stay and risk it escalating."

De escalation was simple in this case. Swap emails mobile numbers and insurance details.

these officers were not stalking OP or targeting her in any way., and had she not hit their car, they wouldn't have said a word to her...

As for the police officers throwing their weight around before they’d even looked at the car, I would be focused on leaving too. Even if he was a policeman he’s hot headed and hasn’t even inspected the car & then he’s controlled your right to get in a car and be safe - which indicates he’s unhinged.

No, not at all, acting in an official police capacity, which they were, I'm sure they are well within their rights to stop someone leaving the vicinity after committing an offence.

Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 outlines the guidelines that motorists are bound to follow in the event of an accident. If, while driving a vehicle, you find yourself in an accident that results in injury to someone else or damage to property, you must ensure that you:

1. Stop your vehicle at the scene of the accident
2. Give your personal details to any relevant individual
3. Report to police – if, at the time of stopping your vehicle, you cannot provide your details to the relevant person (perhaps because there is no one else there at the time), you must promptly report the accident to the police; this must be done as soon as reasonably possible and within a maximum of 24 hours

If you fail to comply with these obligations, you commit an offence under Section 170(2) of the Road Traffic Act 1988. If you stop but refuse to share your details with the other party, it remains an offence under the same section.

Nobody is weird. There may be hidden damage caused by the collision. Swapping details ensures that if there is damage discovered later on, something can be done about it. That’s why the law is clear. It doesn’t matter whether damage is visible or not. If there is suspicion from either party that a collision has happened, then if either party asks for insurance details, not providing them is an offence. OP certainly thought she’d hit the car behind - she stopped and got out to inspect.

There is not such thing as damaging another car in a minor prang and the damage not being visible.

I'm embarrassed for you.

Are you all bananas ? She did not damage property.

If the damage isn’t visible there is no damage.

It was a minor prang. If it were a major collision there could be internal damage but it has to be very serious.

If it was pushed over something then maybe but I think in this case that’s highly unlikely.

This is ‘chicken little, the sky is falling’ and all very irrational.

"Even if that is a thing - I don’t know think we have the systems in place for invisible damage & proving its origins."

Most people would look it over or take it to their garage to be looked over or arrange for their insurer to assess it; especially if it's a valuable / new car and even more so if it is leased or on PCP.

Posters on this very thread have said they were hit and had no apparent damage until the subframe was examined and expensive repairs followed.

OP said herself she did not look under the car so can't possible know there is "NO DAMAGE"

My car was recently rebuilt after I was t barred by a driver at fault. There was no internal damage and I took it to a reputable repair centre. From what I understand it would have to be very serious. I really think a car park prang is unlikely to cause damage. If there was internal damage toy would need enough impact to cause some external damage.

I think this is ridiculous.

Not true. I’ve posted before about Dh getting hit at very slow speed while he was waiting at a roundabout. No visible damage but loads of damage underneath.

"I think this is ridiculous."

Ironic that you insist we must believe every word from OP who is an unreliable narrator at best but dismiss comments from other posters that you are wrong about damage not being apparent are "ridiculous".

Okay I’m sorry I am wrong. The one time I’ve taken an oppositional stand on Mumsnet. OP you should probably report to local station and explain you were shaken.

I am so sorry for you Op. this experience sounds awful.

It reminds me of a time a friend of mine (age 19, leggy blonde) was stopped by a police car on a country road - she was absolutely terrified. He made her get out of the car and said she was clearly too young to be driving and made her produce a licence. She hadn’t been speeding to drinking or driving erratically he just decided to enjoy a half hour throwing his weight around. He scared her half to death - she thought he was going to drag her into the woods and … well, whatever.

Many women alone with a man will feel very frightened, there doesn’t even need to be an overt threat. Male police officers cannot all be trusted and in your shoes I would have done the same - for in the car, locked it, got away, and then say quivering and try to recover.

It's a very long thread so I don't blame people who aren't on top of all the details:
I phoned 101 (police non-emergency number) later the same day to report it. The person I spoke to told me that I did not need to report the suspected/possible/non collision to them but I could report the man's behaviour, which I did. I also contacted our insurance company who said they didn't need to log details of the incident unless he made a claim but I should report it to police 🙃