Unpleasant altercation - who was the most unreasonable?

[zerofeeling]

Took my dogs out today and was trying to park in a small space between two cars on a country lane. As I was inching back to fit into the space I heard a loud crunch 😖

The two men from the car behind had just set off on their walk, as I got out of my car one of them was heading back towards me shouting why did I try to park in such a small space. I said sorry and inspected the front of his car - couldn't see any damage at all, and apart from a tiny paint scuff nothing on my car. I said to him 'i can't see any damage, it doesn't look like I hit you'
Man just glanced over at his car then asked me for my details, I asked is that necessary and said again there's no damage. He said that's not the point you have to give your details if you've been in a collision. He was much taller than me and sort of fronting up to me repeating that he wanted my details and me refusing, saying I don't think it was a collision, I think I might have hit something underneath my car. (For info my Mum and a friend have both been scammed on their insurance by people who claimed all kinds of things after very minor prangs)

Then he took an ID wallet out of his pocket and flipped it open to show a photo and badge and said he's Police. I couldn't tell if it was genuine or not. He held his phone up and said he's filming me refusing to comply with the law.
By this time the other man had come back and also filming me and I started to worry - I'm in a secluded area, with two men who are much bigger than me. I told them I felt intimidated and are they trying to scam me?

I got in my car and tried to shut the door but 1st man held onto it to prevent me. I asked if he's trying to detain me and he said no but I will if you don't give me your details, I've identified myself to you as a police officer. I said you've got no right to detain me. Eventually he let go of the door and I had to turn the car round as the lane is a dead end. Once I turned round he said again that I'm breaking the law by refusing to give my details after a collision and he started to recite the Caution they give when you're arrested! I drove away very shaken up, no idea what consequences to expect.

If you look at the section of the road traffic act that deals with this, it isn’t ‘minor trouble’ - the consequences of leaving the scene can be quite serious, up to and including imprisonment and a driving ban. There’s also the knock on effects on insurance if you’re prosecuted. OP hasn’t been ripped to shreds - she’s been taken to task for a massive failure to admit that she had a responsibility under the law and is stretching to any excuse to avoid it.

The ‘crime’ here doesn’t relate to whether there is damage or not. There was reason to think a collision had occurred and she was asked to give her details at the scene. She refused and left the scene. That’s illegal.

Gosh OP I've just read through your posts - what a disturbing and frightening experience, surely it's obvious to most female readers that the police officers were in the wrong by being so intimidating. I hope they will be disciplined for their actions. How are we, the general public, meant to trust the police when they can act that way? You did the right thing trusting your instincts in the moment, after all you weren't to know whether they were genuine, so fleeing would be the best option to put distance between yourself and them at the outset till you could process what happened and think more clearly what to do. A man trying to prevent you closing your car door whilst being so intimidating would strike fear into my heart!

I've just caught up with this thread and yes she has been ripped to shreds. It's been a shocker tbh.

It's bizarre how women (?) on here don't seem to appreciate how intimidating it can be to be harrassed in an isolated place. Someone claiming to be a police officer, demanding my details and then spouting off a caution would sound like absolute bullshit to me too - let alone the bit where he looked her up and then harrassed her at home, too. You'd think people on a women's forum would be sympathetic. But no. I guess she should stick to walking her dogs round her own garden, to be on the safe side?

I’m not really sure what the protocol would be here, but I find it odd that the officer would put his name on the return envelope if he was in breach of it.

@Rosscameasdoody She was being intimidated and tried to discuss the situation with the other party and continued to be intimidated. The other party does not sound like that acted as a professional who knows how to deal with the public in the correct manner ( like the police are supposed to be able to do). Also he only needs her registration to be able to follow up with the police which I am sure he took down and hopefully she took his so she can report him.

There was no one injured and no apparent damage therefore no need to act as they did.

I'm only now coming back to this thread, as I've been in hospital. How has this thread become an attack on you!? 😱 I would have done exactly the same as you OP! I bet you felt very afraid. Especially, as he was holding your door and filming you! I do hope you get the closure you deserve and you're not too affected by this ordeal, and from some of the posters on here.

When I first passed my test, I was in an Asda carpark, a woman was reversing out of a car parking space, as I was turning left and I slammed my brakes on, the same time she did. She got out of her car and said I had hit her. I was really bewildered and confused. Filming people wasn't a thing 20 years ago. I was scared as she was quite intimidating. I gave her my details, but I didn't think to get hers.

I went straight home and told my parents what the woman had said and that I didn't think I had hit her (there were no marks/bumps) We went to the police station and reported it (not much they could do, but noted it down) A few weeks later, I received correspondence from my insurance and she was claiming for back and neck injury. Luckily, this was within a 30 day window of CCTV being deleted from Asda. We retrieved the CCTV (I hadn't hit her!) and she was done for fraud.

Not one of these posters know how it feels or how they would react, unless you have been put into these situations. I can fully understand how you felt and how vulnerable you were. I think you did everything right, and you trusted your guy, to get away from the situation.

I am sorry but if you had refused to give me your insurance details after that I'd be annoyed too. You should have exchanged insurance details and taken photos of each of the cars and any damage. What did you expect him to do when you were being so unreasonable and refusing to comply with the law ? The fact that the damage was to your car and not his is neither here nor there

if you are involved in an accident where damage or injury is caused, you are legally required to stop and provide your name, and vehicle details, including insurance information, to anyone with reasonable grounds to request it. Failure to do so is a criminal offense.

You are definitely in the wrong here. The behaviour of the men was also not acceptable but you are absolutely in the wrong too

We've had many, many incidents of police incompetence and downright corruption round here. I've reported over 50 incidents to them (rural crime) over the years, and not ONCE have they ever acted properly on any of them. I'm more shocked that the police officers in your case have used their police status to make such a drama out of what happened in your OP, rather than focusing on their actual jobs. Good to know they will use their authority to take a personal matter this far, while ignoring actual crimes (and before anyone says they don't, we've never had a SINGLE thing properly actioned and have had some pretty serious stuff happen to us including threats to life and mass murder of animals on purpose). Shocking. I hope you push to hold these wankers to account, OP. They think they are untouchable.

Oh, forgot to add, I also submitted a complaint about them round here (North). Got absolutely nowhere as they closed ranks and said the officers in question were 'already on long term leave' so no investigation could take place. Useless, incompetent institution who employs so many genuinely stupid, unqualified idiots and gives them a load of power and wonders what can go wrong.

There has to be a happy medium somewhere. Go online and have a look at how ridiculous some of the excuses are for non-cooperation when women are stopped by the police. I agree that these two men didn’t act professionally but if OP stayed long enough to argue the toss, surely that was long enough to give her details and leave if she felt intimidated.

One of them asked OP for her insurance and details. It’s the law of the land that if either party has reasonable suspicion that a collision has taken place and asks for details, then it’s against the law not to comply. The fact that there was no injury or ‘apparent’ damage is neither here nor there. There was no need to discuss anything - it would have been quicker for her to give her details as requested, take photographs of both cars and leave. I agree that if these two men were police officers then it didn’t seem that they acted very professionally but that’s not the point. OP was asked for her details where there were reasonable grounds for her to provide them. She broke the law by not complying.

Same here. @zerofeeling I totally get why you felt frightened.

It is not the law of the land that you have to report a 'suspicion' that a collision might have occurred, that's absurd.

Wow, OP. Just read all your posts and like you I cannot believe the grief you've been getting.

I have to say that I think the whole "swapping details" thing is out of date and should be stopped. I have on more than one occasion had very minor dings with other cars and felt very very unsafe at the thought of handing over my details. In one case after the ding four men jumped out of the other car and approached me aggressively. By sheer good fortune at that moment the police turned up and ended up arresting two of them who were either breaching bail conditions or wanted or something like that. I still was forced to give my name and address to the driver.

Surely all you need is the other car's registration plate and your own insurance company's details and they can deal with everything? If the other car is driving on false plates then I'm not sure that you can trust the other driver to give his real name or address or contact details.

The issue here is that OP ISN'T being 'victimised' because she is a woman, so all these accusation of misogyny she keeps banding about is quite frankly, disgusting, it's just a smokescreen to wriggle out of her legal responsibility and make herself seem a victim.

She was ONLY approached because she hit a persons car then denied she had done it, even though there was evidence, became combative, refused to give details, and then fled the scene.

I can understand if she FELT intimidated, and wasn't sure if they were actually police or not, the best thing would be to lock herself in her car OR leave (as a last resort) then IMMEDIATELY report the police instead. But she didn't do either of those things, seemingly it didn't even cross her mind to report 'fake policemen, misogynst scammers out there targeting lone women' and she actually had no intention of reporting to the police until people on here put pressure on her to do the right thing.

Anyone who says anything other than agree with her is called a nasty bully (even though she has posted on AIBU), which just goes to prove that she has no intention of ever taking responsibility for her part in this when she can deflect and blame and act like a helpless victim, I doubt it is her first time.

100 % correct

It is actually, I have posted a link to the law twice, it's not difficult to understand, read it.

You have chosen your own words to express it, to try to ridicule it, nevertheless using the way you chose to express it, you can't leave the incident anonymously.

I agree it's outdated and potentially a risk to have to hand over personal details or to have to ask for them. Surely your insurance info could be stored with your Number Plate info?

Well, I could of course be completely wrong. Who's to say without being there.

But if OP hadn't sounded like she was so desperate to wriggle out of any responsibility from the very start then I'd be more inclined to believe her. I mean, who refuses to give their details because there's no visible damage? And hearing a loud crunch while reversing into a tight space but then trying to say it was something under the bumper. Just sounds too unlikely to me.

And then somebody announcing themselves as a copper but then proceeding to video record their aggressive actions seems odd as well. But granted they might not have acted perfectly either. But most people would be annoyed by somebody hitting their car, trying to deny it, and then basically doing a hit and run.

So, yeah I may be wrong but I'd love to hear the other side of the story.

Suppose it was a collision, and he later discovered damage that wasn't visible to the eye. What was he to do then? He wouldn't have had your details, so was he to shoulder the cost of what would have been your fault?

I was involved with something like this before, something was out of alignment in the car (sorry I don't know correct terminology) that isn't visible by eye, but only evident after being checked by a mechanic. I was the one at fault, exchanged details and encouraged the other driver to have it checked out. Taking his behaviour out of the equation, I don't think its right to leave someone with no way to trace you if there is any chance that you've caused damage to their property.

I don't think ANYONE should give their address to a stranger in any circumstances, phone number ok because you can block a harasser, but not your address, all personal details should go through legal parties like insurance companies

you are correct OP. ignore the bootlickers who want people to ignore their intuition because someone random man on the side of the road flashes a badge for half a second.

Police can identify you via your care or if they want follow you to a less secluded are or to a station.

giving over your details to a random man in plain clothes on a secluded road because he says he's "police" is madness. they can send you a letter as you are not under arrest, like they do for all road traffic incidents.

And you reported to the insurance like you are supposed to. Trust you instincts not random men who claim authority over you and try to stop you from leaving.

People are being bonkers.

Well said, I agree. Initially, I was outraged at the police behaviour, but as the story has developed, and details have been added and changed, the picture looks increasingly like OP is unreasonable.

No doubt the incident will be presented differently in the police's version of events, but the video will reveal the truth, which is presumably why the police felt the need to record it.

thats what license numbers do. they identify the owner of the car if they weren't driving they have to provide the drivers details or will be liable for whatever it is.