Unpleasant altercation - who was the most unreasonable?

[zerofeeling]

Took my dogs out today and was trying to park in a small space between two cars on a country lane. As I was inching back to fit into the space I heard a loud crunch 😖

The two men from the car behind had just set off on their walk, as I got out of my car one of them was heading back towards me shouting why did I try to park in such a small space. I said sorry and inspected the front of his car - couldn't see any damage at all, and apart from a tiny paint scuff nothing on my car. I said to him 'i can't see any damage, it doesn't look like I hit you'
Man just glanced over at his car then asked me for my details, I asked is that necessary and said again there's no damage. He said that's not the point you have to give your details if you've been in a collision. He was much taller than me and sort of fronting up to me repeating that he wanted my details and me refusing, saying I don't think it was a collision, I think I might have hit something underneath my car. (For info my Mum and a friend have both been scammed on their insurance by people who claimed all kinds of things after very minor prangs)

Then he took an ID wallet out of his pocket and flipped it open to show a photo and badge and said he's Police. I couldn't tell if it was genuine or not. He held his phone up and said he's filming me refusing to comply with the law.
By this time the other man had come back and also filming me and I started to worry - I'm in a secluded area, with two men who are much bigger than me. I told them I felt intimidated and are they trying to scam me?

I got in my car and tried to shut the door but 1st man held onto it to prevent me. I asked if he's trying to detain me and he said no but I will if you don't give me your details, I've identified myself to you as a police officer. I said you've got no right to detain me. Eventually he let go of the door and I had to turn the car round as the lane is a dead end. Once I turned round he said again that I'm breaking the law by refusing to give my details after a collision and he started to recite the Caution they give when you're arrested! I drove away very shaken up, no idea what consequences to expect.

I agree. I sounds like this scenario could have gone, "Please give us your details." "Sure, here they are." "Thank you. Bye."

Instead it went, "Please give us your details." "But I don't see any damage. Not giving details." Asked for details again. "No. Bye." Not surprising they were annoyed.

That's the impression I get anyway.

Shouting

Clear verbal commands, just as they are trained to do.

Putting a phone camera in my face

To attain visual evidence of an unknown, uncooperative suspect. Just as they are trained to do. It's called evidence.

Preventing me from shutting my car door

Ya think!

I would call it "using the lowest, appropriate, most reasonable force, to try to prevent an unknown offender from driving off from the scene of a collision"

Reading me my rights as if he was arresting me

No love, they were CAUTIONING you, so that YOU were aware of your rights. Being cautioned doesn't, and has never meant, that anyone was being arrested. But if that's what you genuinely believed, then it appears that resisting arrest and making off from officers after you were arrested, is also something you think is fine.

Just do us all a favour, and hand in your licence, you are a danger to others. I don't know which is worse, your casual disregard for law, your disregard for other people's property, or your utterly myopic and selfish belief that you can do anything you wantn and there should be no consequences for you.

Actually she didn't commit a crime UNTIL she refused to provide her name and address.

From the OP's descriptions, it sounds as if after her repeated refusals, they then decided to arrest her for that crime and read her her rights. She then decided to resist arrest by leaving the scene, and they decided to let her go and to follow up on the offence later.

I've also come to the opinion that the 2 officers may have been at work - crimes such as theft from vehicles often take place in the parking areas of secluded recreation spots. Work seems the most likely reason for 2 police officers to be there.

The protocols involve the off-duty Officer contacting his supervisor to reassure a lone woman that the man is who he claims to be. He had plenty of time to do that but chose to go on his power trip instead.

You hit their car. Damage isn't always surface visible depending upon the point of contact. The crunch is evidence of the contact- which you and they heard.
You refused to give your insurance details.
You left the scene of an accident without giving details.
You will no doubt have more than just an insurance claim coming your way.

They weren't at work, they were taking their dog for a walk.

Just to clarify; I don't think OP was in the right, in her shoes I would have driven to a police station.

But they didn't take her licence plate and have her pulled over, and she hasn't been visited by police officers, so I'm inclined to think it was a scam.

“If you fail to comply with these obligations, you commit an offence under Section 170(2) of the Road Traffic Act 1988. If you stop but refuse to share your details with the other party, it remains an offence under the same section..”

This is from a uk law firm’s website…

Yeah, but you didn't give them the chance, you drove off.

You can try to spin it whatever way you want, but you were in the wrong.

🙄

2 Policemen share a dog?

Could it have been a Police Dog?

No contact so far from his insurance company. He looked up my address later through my reg plate so they could have come to arrest me at any time. Instead he chose to continue to abuse his position which has led to me making a formal complaint against him.

Why would they, she has reported it now.

Also, you do realise that the UK isn't teaming with Officers. They may well have reported it, but there weren't any officers in a position or available to look for the vehicle.

I'm sure he's used to difficult people making complaints, formal or otherwise.

Are you sure there won't be a fine heading your way, or whatever the normal consequence for leaving the scene and not providing details is?

He had the chance and didn't take it because he was too busy enjoying himself with intimidating a woman. Feel free to carry on defending an abusive man, it's a great look for you. 👍

So you think he's probably had a lot of complaints made against him? Yes I think you're probably right.

The thing I find challenging is that what most people on this thread seem to be focusing on is how the op was in the wrong for not giving details (I actually agree they should have given details) but that therefore they are then not justified in being nervous. That somehow if you react less than perfectly in a stressful situation you therefore don’t get to have any ability to also feel nervous and scared.

This is really worrying as so many women will be in dangerous situations after behaving less than perfectly, it doesn’t mean they then have to stick it out, take what’s coming and suck it up when they feel scared.

As women we all have to be really mindful not to peddle the idea that if you haven’t behaved perfectly you then don’t get to feel nervous. That if you feel scared you need to stay as if you don’t people will berate you for being wickle females. That if you get yourself out of a challenging situation you will then be accused of trying to flee your responsibility. This is all such damaging views to be pushing, it gets into the back of minds and makes us question even more so our reactions in challenging situations.

The situation the op found themselves in would have been full of knee jerk reactions on both sides. Possibly bumping a car will have got the adrenaline going for the outset, combined with feeling told off, not heard, scared at the repercussions, isolated, intimidated etc… All of those really complex feelings would have happened in the space of seconds and it is no surprise the OP fled and then needed some time to work out what on earth just happened and get advice on next steps. I suspect if the intimidation and isolation had been taken out of the mix the outcome may have been different (I.e. not feeling like the only choice is to run).

It’s very possible that both parties acted incorrectly. Op for not giving details, the police men for filming a lone woman in an isolated area, reading rights and preventing access to safety. It’s just that the potential outcomes are vey different for both. For the policeman the worst possible outcome is financial via insurance excess. For a woman in this situation the worst possible outcome is a threat to self. This should always be acknowledged and understood, especially by other women.

Quite possibly. People in those types of professions often encounter people that use complaints to feel powerful or punish them.

I don't disagree but, from what OP wrote herself, it doesn't seem there was any issue until she decided she couldn't see any damage so wouldn't provide details. That's when the situation turned.

I 100% support any woman to drive away if she feels unsafe, but she should then have driven to the nearest police station to report what happened and why she drove away. And report to insurance. Then she isn't avoiding taking responsibility and the 'I felt unsafe so left' seems more supported. I'm not sure OP would have felt unsafe if she hadn't pushed back when asked for details.

Yes you’re right and the law agrees with you!

If you 100% support any woman to drive away then you should 100% support op driving away.

Support for driving away shouldn’t be conditioned to acting correctly from the offset.

This is really well said 👏

What?

Obviously I wasn't witness to what actually unfolded. Going on OP's description, it doesn't sound like there was any reason to drive away and this is a situation all of her own making. Not to say she wasn't right to drive away later, even if it was a situation she created. It just seems like it could have been avoided altogether. Going by her own description.

😂

You will never take responsibility for your actions will you!

I actually think this is downright wrong, it plays the oh no I'm a helpless woman card, belittles womens experiences who have actually been in dangerous situations and is basically as good as saying any man who tries to speak to me, even if I'm directly damaging his property, is probably a rapist/attacker.

Are we devolving into a world where men won't be allowed to speak to women at all? He wasn't alone either, there was another man there. The man identified himself as police, I presume if you were flustered he thought it might reassure you.

If it had been two female police offers walking their dog off duty who's car you hit, would you still have driven off? I think so. It's not about being intimidated is it. It's about not wanting to face any consequences for your actions. Arguably which you have made much worse, because I honestly think a bump while parking your car was hardly going to interrupt your life, but fleeing and then trying to report a police officer who hasn't done anything wrong, absolutely will. You've made a non event into an absolute ordeal for yourself.