To think that proposing to a man kills attraction, even in “modern” couples?

[ByHonestRoseBiscuit]

We all talk about equality in relationships but I still think there’s something about a woman proposing that disrupts natural polarity, especially attraction. Even “progressive” men seem to respond awkwardly to it.

AIBU to think that deep down, most men still want to be the ones to lead when it comes to commitment?

I don't think it really matters in the scheme of things. My DH didn't want me to propose to him (we'd loosely discussed it) but only because he said he wanted his 'moment', he wanted to ask me and make it nice and didn't want that taken from him!

We all talk about equality in relationships but I still think there’s something about a woman proposing that disrupts natural polarity, especially attraction.

Well "natural polarity" is bollocks so there goes your premise anyway (love a PP's description of "tradwife ragebait").

The thing that would kill my attraction stone dead is if a man felt emasculated in any way by a woman showing agency or taking the lead. Emasculation is a nonsense concept in any situation - it's what you feel if you think masculinity is down to social signifiers rather than the bog-standard and unremarkable state of being male.

When I first met DP I told him in no uncertain terms that I didn't believe in marriage as an institution and I didn't want to get married ever. So fast forward 12 years and while I still don't believe in the state getting involved in our relationship, I also now realise it's an easier way to sort out various legal bits than faffing around with solicitors and wills. But having been so firm a decade before, it was incumbent on me to raise the subject again. (Which I did with a sensible conversation, not any sort of proposal.)

I think it's because marriage used to be a business merger / land merger / country bonding shite rather than about love. So the men / parents would talk money and the marriage ceremony was the signing of the contract.

So its become a tradition without people thinking about how it started and the origins of the formal marriage contract.

Thats just my understanding of it. Im no expert.

Hear hear to this. Nothing kills off a woman’s attraction more than a man with a ‘polarity’ that makes him feel that a woman saying ‘Let’s talk about marriage’ is equivalent to her lopping his penis off.

I know a number of women who’ve given their boyfriend an ultimatum to propose by a certain date. To me, that’s just a proposal with a deadline, but they were all insistent that it was “him” doing the proposing.
I don’t think anyone should be embarrassed to propose - it feeds into the idea that women are just all desperate to get hitched and men want to roam free - it’s archaic.

Been married 2 years so early days. Some big plans she was counting on for the career she wanted to pursue have fallen through so they’ll be needing to rethink their entire life plan. I hate the idea that I’m awaiting the big crash BUT I did think the career plan was so ambitious it should have been achieved prior to marriage.

Very true. I've known women who have children with their partner before marriage, but gave the kids his surname because it's "tradition" and insist they can't propose to him because "he would want be the one to propose, he's straight out of the 1950s".

He moved in with you, knocked you up, and still hasn't proposed! How is that "straight out of the 1950s"? If he would want to be the one to propose, why hasn't he? Why does tradition only matter when it benefits the man?

There’s a lot of confusion about marriage being a financial and social contract, a merger that lasts for life, and being an act of love. It’s both. It also usually involves a ritualistic ceremony that costs a lot of money.

Marriage also has direct implications for more than just the two people who sign this contract: - future children, extended family, care for elders, local and other types of community and friendship circles, economies (GDP, tax, public spending, cost of services), and society more broadly.

Marriage should be approached both rationally and emotionally.

Key is to keep a healthy balance between the two.

That's the actual wedding.

Indeed. I've been married twice. The first was to a man - we'd been living together for almost 3 years and had discussed getting married (no proposal on either side), then he said we should book the registry office for a date in my summer holidays (teacher), take our two best mates with us and go and get married, which we did.

My second was actually a civil partnership but that's all same sex couples were allowed in 2006. As soon as the announcement was made that the bill was passed we cried and then said when we'd book it for. This time, we had 3 good mates with us. Still together!

All of this.

Generally, I think deciding to get married should be more of a conversation than a yes-or-no moment. But I mostly subscribe to the idea that if men want to be engaged or married to women, they’ll take that initiative themselves. I don’t think that men who have been dating women for a while are fretting to themselves, “Oh no, what if I propose and she says no? I really wish she’d just ask instead!”

Does it kill attraction? No idea. Do I feel a little sorry for women who were the ones to stage the dramatic “will you marry me” moment because their boyfriends weren’t doing it? Yes. I think if the boyfriends were that determined to keep them forever, they would have proposed already.

But why wouldn't it equally work the other way around, that their girlfriends were clearly uninterested in marrying them as they hadn't staged a dramatic proposal? By your reckoning women are completely uninterested in being married because they seldom propose.

The weird made for tv/insta proposals are cringe for sure BUT having “the talk” about marriage its value etc should be had and discussed same as a household budget.
Once you have the talk, you begin planning.
And no, you don’t waste half a decade after the move in/shared finances talk.

We sat on the sofa. I said fancy getting married. He was thrilled. We went and picked a ring out together. Nearly 30 years on, I'm pretty sure dh doesnt give a crap

Because, for better or for worse, that’s not the societal norm.

If they are the kind of man who would have a problem with this ie feel emasculated/lose their feelings about me if I wasn't the passive recipient of their proposal, I wouldn't want to marry them. I am sure there are still plenty of subtly (or unsubtly) sexist men who do feel like that. They won't die out while women keep procreating with them.

Personally I can’t remember. It was a conversation where we worked out what we wanted out of life and that that included marriage imminently. I am pretty sure he brought up kids first as I vaguely remember the conversation. I reckon I made the first move when we got together. He reckons he did but his “first move” were a bit rubbish so I don’t think they count as I wasn’t sure if he was actually asking me out or not. I was very clear with my first move because I am a mathematician and communicate like one.

Yeah, and neither was women voting?

This.

You need to work on that OP.

Can't say I've noticed many 1950s virgin types tbh or anyone pretending about it.

Honestly feel it's your mindset OP

It sort of was before people got disposable income and the wedding industry kicked off. It was the grandmothers and women who played matchmaker. Outside of extreme wealth/title, women had a say. Then, very cleverly was it put to the men. The asking the Dad and the proposal was perfunctory. We seem to look back at post war 'traditions' without realising that they were manufactured by retailers/advertising. All this 'romance' (including that of being a wife and mother) was to mask women being chucked out of jobs for the returning men.

So the unmarried mothers around you have given their children their last name, even though they live with the father? No-one in your circle got walked down the isle by their Dad? Post birth leave is completely shared? The men are going part time to accommodate babies/toddlers?

Nevermind unmarried mothers...I married 30 years ago ...kept my name and gave dc mine.

I know mums who have walked their dc down the aisle, stay at home dads and shock horror same sex marriages.

My fomer sister in law proposed to my brother over 25 years ago.

I honestly don't know anyone who would bat an eyelid at a woman proposing. It's bizarre to me that anyone would see it as an issue.

Yes, a lot of tossers in this world.