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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why women do this to themselves?

319 replies

YourAmplePlumPoster · 01/07/2025 18:39

https://images.app.goo.gl/qjKyBnm1bkpCKefWA
Lauren Sanchez before and after. What is it with inflatable lips and sculpted cheeks and the inflated breasts? She looked like a nice, attractive woman before.

https://images.app.goo.gl/qjKyBnm1bkpCKefWA

OP posts:
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7
ThatCyanCat · 02/07/2025 14:10

Mirabai · 02/07/2025 13:59

@ThatCyanCat

Who’s we? In your opinion, I disagree and you will just have to accept that as I don’t have time to argue as I said.

Yes, you already said you didn't have time to continue the discussion further.

Assuming you're not getting confused with the posts I'm making in response to another poster, the "we" was a very common rhetorical device meaning "it's not right", as in "we could run red lights but we don't". It didn't occur to me that it needed explaining.

ThatCyanCat · 02/07/2025 14:14

YourAmplePlumPoster · 02/07/2025 14:09

Does anyone remember The Stepford Wives movie? That's what these women look like. Plastic robots.

The wives were played by women. And you were supposed to be critical of the men who created the robots...

YourAmplePlumPoster · 02/07/2025 14:44

ThatCyanCat · 02/07/2025 14:14

The wives were played by women. And you were supposed to be critical of the men who created the robots...

I am critical. Who is telling women they have to create a certain look to be beautiful? Where does it come from? Why do they all look the same?

OP posts:
ExercicenformedeZ · 02/07/2025 14:56

5128gap · 02/07/2025 13:58

People are offended by drag Queens because they are MEN portraying women as stereotypes. It wouldn't much matter what stereotype they chose. 70s comedians dressed as stereotypical rolling pin wielding older women were just as offensive. Women adopting extreme stereotypes of femininity are not pretending to be women, they are women expressing a femininity that is theirs by right. The fact you think the men look better and more feminine than the women is a niche view that's neither here nor there. People aren't offended by drag because it looks bad.

Feminity is a construct, it isn't 'ours by right'. Being female is not 'feminity'. Feminity can be toxic, just as masculinity can. I don't care about the genitals of those who perform toxic feminity. I just care if it hurts ordinary women. I would argue that women like the Kardashians and Lauren Sanchez and the Love Island crew do far more to hurt normal women than someone appearing on RPDR.

5128gap · 02/07/2025 15:36

ExercicenformedeZ · 02/07/2025 14:56

Feminity is a construct, it isn't 'ours by right'. Being female is not 'feminity'. Feminity can be toxic, just as masculinity can. I don't care about the genitals of those who perform toxic feminity. I just care if it hurts ordinary women. I would argue that women like the Kardashians and Lauren Sanchez and the Love Island crew do far more to hurt normal women than someone appearing on RPDR.

So why are you speaking in positive terms about males performing femininity, expressing thenselves, you don't understand why it's offensive, they are convincing, they look more feminine than women who've had procedures etc, and calling women 'sex clowns' because they've had filler, if you make no distinction between the sexes, and care only for harm to women? And yes, the stereotypes associated with being female are a social construct, imposed on women, which some women reject and others embrace, both entirely valid positions to take.

EverythingIsComputer · 02/07/2025 15:38

I think there’s a shift to the wealthy having really obvious surgery as it shows they can afford it rather than keeping things subtle.

ExercicenformedeZ · 02/07/2025 15:48

5128gap · 02/07/2025 15:36

So why are you speaking in positive terms about males performing femininity, expressing thenselves, you don't understand why it's offensive, they are convincing, they look more feminine than women who've had procedures etc, and calling women 'sex clowns' because they've had filler, if you make no distinction between the sexes, and care only for harm to women? And yes, the stereotypes associated with being female are a social construct, imposed on women, which some women reject and others embrace, both entirely valid positions to take.

Because the men who play with feminity do not set a normative standard. They are mostly highly marginalized individuals who are emulating exalted femininity. Get back to me when a billionaire walks one of them down the aisle.

GreenGully · 02/07/2025 16:00

Must be body dysmorphia.

ThatCyanCat · 02/07/2025 17:16

ExercicenformedeZ · 02/07/2025 15:48

Because the men who play with feminity do not set a normative standard. They are mostly highly marginalized individuals who are emulating exalted femininity. Get back to me when a billionaire walks one of them down the aisle.

So that's it... they're not women, so they should be praised for performing womanning and can be as fake as they like about it (even though you also said they often look "more feminine than actual women"). But women shouldn't be allowed to "normalise" this same womanning because it won't be fake enough when they do it, on account of their actually being women.

And, of course, they are "marginalised" more than women (do me a lemon, women have spent a decade being sacked, traduced, excluded from their spaces and gaslit if they didn't surrender to the erasure and demands of this "marginalisation"). So men get a free pass to do womanning and do it really well, but women who do the same womanning look masculine and ugly and are to blame for everything.

In other words, plain old sexism and male supremacist double standards where men can do what they like, and will always do it better than women. But women can't because they're women and there's the faintest chance they might marry one of the world's richest men.

Yep, you've got a handle on the ideology, but it's quite literally a load of old balls.

5128gap · 02/07/2025 18:18

ExercicenformedeZ · 02/07/2025 14:56

Feminity is a construct, it isn't 'ours by right'. Being female is not 'feminity'. Feminity can be toxic, just as masculinity can. I don't care about the genitals of those who perform toxic feminity. I just care if it hurts ordinary women. I would argue that women like the Kardashians and Lauren Sanchez and the Love Island crew do far more to hurt normal women than someone appearing on RPDR.

Oh, should also ask, if femininity is a construct, then so is masculinity, yes? Curious then as to how a woman can 'look' masculine? How does a woman presenting with all the trappings of stereotypical femininity look masculine to you, when masculinity is a construct, rather than a physical thing you can see?

ExercicenformedeZ · 02/07/2025 19:17

5128gap · 02/07/2025 18:18

Oh, should also ask, if femininity is a construct, then so is masculinity, yes? Curious then as to how a woman can 'look' masculine? How does a woman presenting with all the trappings of stereotypical femininity look masculine to you, when masculinity is a construct, rather than a physical thing you can see?

That isn't the gotcha you think it is, because I never said that either femininity or masculinity wasn't a 'physical thing you can see'. A 'construct' doesn't mean 'invisiblle'. When I say that someone like Sanchez looks masculine, I mean that they have the coarse muscular appearance often associated with males. The hyper feminine cosmetics and presentation is overlay.

ThatCyanCat · 02/07/2025 19:24

It's perhaps worth remembering that a fair number of men who claim to be women and their sympathisers are angry about what they perceive as women's sexual power and want to find a way to "dethrone" them, so to speak, and pass that power to men... and men will then either do it better ("more feminine than actual women", "she looks coarse and masculine") or they'll successfully parody it/not "normalise" it through being fake in a way no woman could do, on account of actually being a woman, and outperform women that way instead. This sexist, male supremacist double standard is OK, because women still retain the power of possibly marrying one of the richest men in the world. The fact that men have about an equal chance of being one of the richest men in the world is, of course, irrelevant.

5128gap · 02/07/2025 20:01

ExercicenformedeZ · 02/07/2025 19:17

That isn't the gotcha you think it is, because I never said that either femininity or masculinity wasn't a 'physical thing you can see'. A 'construct' doesn't mean 'invisiblle'. When I say that someone like Sanchez looks masculine, I mean that they have the coarse muscular appearance often associated with males. The hyper feminine cosmetics and presentation is overlay.

Its not meant to be a gotcha. Its a genuine query as you have said a few things that seem to contradict each other. But i think thats because youre applying different and preferential standards to men and it doesnt lend itself to consistency.

Walkaround · 02/07/2025 20:06

She was attractive and now looks ugly, plastic and mentally ill.

YourAmplePlumPoster · 02/07/2025 21:45

Funny how Munroe Bergdof looks like Kim Kardashian.
https://images.app.goo.gl/YxgDuSNRYTK3f19YA

https://images.app.goo.gl/YxgDuSNRYTK3f19YA

OP posts:
BeeryZ · 02/07/2025 21:56

I guess there is this thing where her look is out of reach for ordinary women. Thank god!!!

I am not religious but when I saw the wedding party I thought my god. It brought to mind a bunch of demons basking in the devil’s wealth, power and corruption.

Such a contrast to his ex wife who is making herself busy giving away as much of her wealth as possible.

5128gap · 02/07/2025 22:09

YourAmplePlumPoster · 02/07/2025 21:45

Funny how Munroe Bergdof looks like Kim Kardashian.
https://images.app.goo.gl/YxgDuSNRYTK3f19YA

Why would that be funny? If it were true that is. One looks like a person who has had significant facial surgery to achieve a more feminine face shape. The other looks like a woman who's had cosmetic surgery to (in her opinion) enhance an already feminine face. They have the same style, but no one would mistake them for two sisters.

Glazedcarrot · 03/07/2025 00:38

But Kim K’s look (& subsequent sisters) is massively copied & has influenced so much copycat cosmetic surgery. That’s undeniable. And I agree it all begins to look homogeneous & clone like & individual beauty or looks get completely lost.

YourAmplePlumPoster · 04/07/2025 20:38

Sabalenka the tennis player has the look they all want without even trying. It's her natural look. Very defined eyebrows, slightly slanted eyes, high cheekbones and full lips. It's also quite slavic. She's a stunning looking woman.
https://images.app.goo.gl/ByBGSn5wHzCgRnQT8

https://images.app.goo.gl/ByBGSn5wHzCgRnQT8

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