To tell the school my child will NOT go to detention..

[Nataliaa]

DD year 7 has been given a 30 minute detention tomorrow afternoon, after school. Since starting secondary, she has received 2 detentions- 1 for forgetting her PE shorts and 1 for not completing homework.
I fully supported the school and the consequences DD had to face on these 2 occasions. She did learn from each time and since then, she has always been organised with PE kit and completing homework.
DD is well behaved, works hard and all school reports have been brilliant so we have no concerns.

Back to today… it is 31 degrees and the school allowed blazers to be left at home, but still expected the children to be in their shirt, ties and trousers (the school recently banned skirts, and does not allow shorts so all children are in trousers. All year round)

During lunch break, DD loosened her tie and untucked her shirt as she was so hot and sweaty… and then forgot to tuck in her shirt and redo tie before going back in.
She walked into English and straight away the teacher told her to tuck the shirt in and do tie, which she did.
Then whilst sat down she untucked the shirt again… she then got up for something and the teacher noticed the shirt untucked and as she had already been told once, she was given the detention.
DD tried to explain she was just so hot and sweaty, she felt she couldn’t concentrate and loosening the shirt helped.. she was then told off for answering back.

I do not agree with this detention at all. Other local schools have let kids go in wearing PE kits in this heat. The teacher was not wearing shirt and tie- she was wearing a floaty and cool summer dress.
I can’t think for the life of me how an untucked shirt would affect DD’s education, and why it’s more important to stick to a strict dress code rather than doing whatever is comfortable in this heat!!

I have never been in the position to disagree with the school, and not sure what would happen if I refuse to let DD go to this detention… also not sure if that’s setting the wrong message to DD, as I always encourage following school rules!!

Any advice? Is this a hill worth dying on? What would you do?

And neither were you!

What was absolutely ludicrous was insisting that children wore their usual school uniform on a scorching hot day, whilst the female staff was free to waft around in summer frocks.

I would be questioning why the teacher was such an arse about it. Why be so strict in enforcing stupid rules when it is so hot.

Its not even dressed like being in an office, all but the most serious of office roles allow some deviance from shirt, tie and trousers, and the vast majority which do still require that are in areas which have decent air con.

@Drfosters

Tucking in a shirt is not going to lead to health issues.

I have said for years that school uniform needs scrapping. Luckily my school had a relaxed code yesterday.

Quick snapshot as I left Farringdon station this morning to go to work:

Plenty of summer dresses and sandals/trainers.
A good number of men and women in shorts.
Not a single tie.
Lots of untucked shirts.

(plus lots and lots and lots of tattoos)

Anyone dressed as per this school’s uniform would not be “dressed for work” in any normal sense.

I agree that school uniform needs to be scrapped, and I used to be very much in favour of it. I thought it was a great leveller, which I now recognise as the bollocks that it is.

Far too many schools are just too foolish to apply any common sense to it at all. They use it as a power tool rather than tackling real issues such as bullying.

Don't anyone try to tell me that school uniform helps prevent bullying. It doesn't. I wore school uniform. As did my bullies. I was bullied throughout secondary school.

I would encourage the detention to be attended but take the issue up with school directly as your daughter was not wrong. I am so sick of schools with one rule for the children and another for staff. This stuff policy of uniform must be worn at all times. Why?! Why?! Many European countries don’t have uniform policies and they all turn out just fine thanks. Don’t even get me started on the cost of it! Don’t answer back to explain why you untucked your shirt again, but do enforce children in 30°c heat wear stuffy uniform and cause them to overheat and do not even think about complaining about it. No, not a problem at all. Mental!

Yes it is. Why on earth do you think we wear floaty light clothes in the summer? We don’t wear winter trousers and tight clothes because it is hot, sweaty and uncomfortable. i am currently wearing a very light dress which hits my knees and strappy shoes. Air is circulating my body, cooling it down. Having shirts tucked in in this heat in trousers designed for winter in a hot, stuffy room without air con, it is locking the heat against your body increasing the temperature. Sorry but unless you have had heat stroke before you can’t comment. I’ve had it in less than 30 degrees before and ended up in hospital. I have no idea how the girl felt by the fact she felt so hot that she needed to not follow the rules (when previously there had been no problem) tells me she must have felt pretty awful.

I would personally tell her she has to do the detention, but promise to write a letter to the headteacher or governors to question the school uniform policy in general for hot weather.

Also, this has brought back memories of having to do PE in the freezing cold in a polo top and shorts while sadistic PE teacher had a coat, hat and gloves on.

Because she's an autonomous human being living in a system of utter fucking insanity.

What planet are we on where anyone thinks this uniform stuff is ok or necessary. Then teachers on a power trip.

That teacher could easily have let it go. But she didn't did she. Because of the love and care she had for the well being and outcomes of her pupils? No. We know not.

I'm with you all the way challenging this.

@mswales

It's really important as parents to teach children to question authority. You don't want kids that blindly obey, that's a terrible parenting outcome...

Yet most parents are very unhappy when their children start questioning their rules. So be careful what you wish for.

You'd be teaching her to stand up for her rights which is a good thing

If done in the right way, yes it is.

and that you will stand up for her health and safety. The temperatures inside the school right now very likely exceed legal limits for workplaces

Except that there is no upper limit for temperature in the workplace. There are lower limits (two, depending upon the type of job that is being done) but no upper limit.

I would support the teacher and expect the detention to be attended, and wouldn't get involved. I wasn't there. I had some unfair punishments when I was at school but, regardless of whether this particular detention is fair or not, I still think it's a bad lesson to teach a child that the teachers' discipline is optional.

Loads of men living in hot countries culturally wear trousers all the time as shorts are for children. It's a tucked in shirt, not a thick jumper. She'd have been fine.

It's quite different. The sports teacher is probably out there all day, not just an hour, and mostly standing on the sidelines rather than running about.

Can you really not tell the difference between being acclimatised to the weather in a consistently hot country and dealing with sporadic heat waves?

31 is very hot in the UK and neither our uniforms nor our classrooms are built for it. Air conditioning is rare to non-existent because you'd need it perhaps for 10 days a year in a year with a hot summer.
Currently, many of us are worrying about small children and pets getting overheated.
School should have re-vamped uniform policy. It's also discrimination against girls to ban skirts - if the problem is sexual assaults, upskirting etc then school needs to deal with that, because trousers won't stop sexual assaults (though will stop upskirting, I admit, but school trousers are often made of material that does not keep you cool).

As a country, we don't really like our children, do we?

I often wear trousers and long sleeves in hot weather in the UK to avoid sunburn. It's perfectly fine. The kid would not have come to harm by tucking their shirt in.

It’s perfectly fine for you. That’s very arrogant to assume that what works for you works for everyone else! See my post upthread about what I saw workers wearing this morning coming out of the station.

There are no women in my office in anything like school trousers and certainly no one is wearing a tie. The only trousers being worn by a woman are loose floaty trousers - completely unlike school trousers. And it’s absolutely glacial in our office, though, unlike in most classrooms.

@LimitedBrightSpots

Personally I think we show we like our DC by having well-disciplined schools where behaviour is good and they can learn.

I would advise those who don't think their children should have to follow rules to check out the Ofsted reports for schools rated 'inadequate' for behaviour.

That will show them what happens in schools where DC don't follow rules. Not coincidentally, these schools are almost always the worst in the country for exam outcomes.

As a teacher I follow uniform policy but…. Here I agree with you.
school uniforms including ties are outdated and especially in summer should be changed.
in offices now casual or smart / casual is worn.
The last corporate role I had they changed the dress code including suits not allowed / jeans encouraged.

There seems to be this idea that giving an inch and letting children dress appropriately for the weather will lead to a state of anarchy and the complete breakdown of order and discipline in schools.

Complete nonsense imo. Blazers, ties and polyester can't be defended in this weather. Anyone who ties to defend them is honestly a bit of a numpty.

I prefer to deal with the issue at hand (appropriate, comfortable clothing for hot weather) rather than engaging in these hysterical "thin end of the wedge" arguments.

It is possible to show a modicom of common sense and regard for children's wellbeing without inviting them to take over the show.

Exactly. So many ridiculous bullies who see kids as "lesser".

@LimitedBrightSpots

This very thread shows that if DC are given an inch, they will take a mile.

The OP's DD's school were 'kind' in allowing her not to wear her blazer. She abused that privilege by defying a teacher and untucking her shirt and not wearing her tie correctly.