To tell the school my child will NOT go to detention..

[Nataliaa]

DD year 7 has been given a 30 minute detention tomorrow afternoon, after school. Since starting secondary, she has received 2 detentions- 1 for forgetting her PE shorts and 1 for not completing homework.
I fully supported the school and the consequences DD had to face on these 2 occasions. She did learn from each time and since then, she has always been organised with PE kit and completing homework.
DD is well behaved, works hard and all school reports have been brilliant so we have no concerns.

Back to today… it is 31 degrees and the school allowed blazers to be left at home, but still expected the children to be in their shirt, ties and trousers (the school recently banned skirts, and does not allow shorts so all children are in trousers. All year round)

During lunch break, DD loosened her tie and untucked her shirt as she was so hot and sweaty… and then forgot to tuck in her shirt and redo tie before going back in.
She walked into English and straight away the teacher told her to tuck the shirt in and do tie, which she did.
Then whilst sat down she untucked the shirt again… she then got up for something and the teacher noticed the shirt untucked and as she had already been told once, she was given the detention.
DD tried to explain she was just so hot and sweaty, she felt she couldn’t concentrate and loosening the shirt helped.. she was then told off for answering back.

I do not agree with this detention at all. Other local schools have let kids go in wearing PE kits in this heat. The teacher was not wearing shirt and tie- she was wearing a floaty and cool summer dress.
I can’t think for the life of me how an untucked shirt would affect DD’s education, and why it’s more important to stick to a strict dress code rather than doing whatever is comfortable in this heat!!

I have never been in the position to disagree with the school, and not sure what would happen if I refuse to let DD go to this detention… also not sure if that’s setting the wrong message to DD, as I always encourage following school rules!!

Any advice? Is this a hill worth dying on? What would you do?

You do realise we are all different right? I have very pale skin and have red hair. I overheat in about 25 degrees. I can last about 10 minutes outside on a hot day unless I have a massive hat and in the shade. My family can be out all day practically. I get very hot, very quickly. My husband and I went on holiday once and we hired a convertible car. By the end of the days drive I was in hospital with heatstroke but my husband was fine. The girl needed to cool her self down which she did by untucking her shirt to improve airflow around her body. Others were fine.

Are you saying that fainting is a choice? A choice similar to choosing to untuck a shirt?

It is only a 30min detention. Even if you disagree with the reason, I can’t see why you would make a a fuss about that. Hopefully she can get her homework done while she is doing it. I would sympathise with my DD but I wouldn’t try and get her out of it because it isn’t a big deal.

she untucked the shirt to help cool herself down so she didn’t overheat.

The difference being your students are acclimatised to those conditions, so of course can manage better. I can cope with 30 degree weather reasonably well, living in the south of England we are starting to get used to this weather. My family living in Australia would think nothing of these temperatures. My other family members who live in the north of scotland would find it quite unbearable - they, however, can cope with constant wind, rain and cold temperatures very well.

I have never worked anywhere where I would be expected to wear shirt, tie and trousers, and nowhere where anyone is expected to dress like that in a boiling hot day. I’m wearing a floating dress and crocs to go into the office today. Blokes will be in short sleeved shirt or T shirts, trousers if they want but tailored or chino shorts are fine, too.

Not all employers are that stupid. Sorry that yours is. Maybe you should “answer back” about such dumb rules?

I agree the uniform rule is ridiculous but she was told to tuck her shirt in and she immediately untucked it when the teacher wasn’t looking and then answered back.

Take a stand regarding uniform by all means but your dd should do the detention

The trousers thing alone would stop me sending her in. I cannot bear trousers. I think I've worn them less than ten times as an adult. My school has a trousers options back in the 70s and my mum was so upset when I cried after the first day and begged for something else. I had to wear them for the first half term until she sourced me a second hand skirt.

Give some examples of employment where the ridiculous rules of secondary school are relevant?

They can't ban skirts it discriminates against some religious groups where women do not wear trousers.

The uniform must not favour one sex or the other, which this could.

Lots of schools have banned skirts.

Well if you had read the whole quote it was an in response to another poster and an example I gave. That’s what it has to do about.

Absolutely not true at all. I follow rules and I am none of those things. Your sweeping generalisation of people who follow the rules is completely wrong.

Do you mean which jobs require a dress code to be followed? Almost every job.

And she was unique in the class for choosing to do so. If she felt she was going to faint she should have spoken to the teacher and gone to the nurse

So basically you have to get to the stage where you are ready to collapse rather than take action to prevent that? Are you really advocating that? I’m genuinely shocked by these replies.

she broke the rules. She chose not to talk about it or to seek help before she broke the rules. She had a choice

Thing is - none of us were there. It sounds so reasonable on paper - untucked shirt to keep cool, forget it’s untucked and then say oh I’m sorry I forgot. This might be how it happened. Or it could be very different. Anyone who works in a high school knows how perfectly reasonable conversations end up with a lot of back chat and attitude that could have been avoided.
I would also like to add that as a teacher I have no say in the dress code, the behaviour policy or the holiday fines. That’s on management.

I think both you and your daughter sound like absolutely lovely , thoughtful and sensible human beings .
She merely tried to keep herself cool whilst clad in totally unsuitable clothing imposed on her by adults who should have far more common sense and empathy. Anyone normal would find it hard to speak with perfect ‘tone ‘ in those circumstances. A good teacher should be able to recognise and acknowledge that a student is really suffering rather than issuing punishment.

I do hope she manages to be comfortable today .
Wishing you both all the very best .

This

I think it sets a bad precedent to undermine the school on this. You can take up disagreeing with policy separately. The issue is being expected to comply with it and twice doing what you would prefer. Its hardly an outrageous act of defiance but if you choose to take the risk sometimes there is a consequence. And sometimes you have to take that (very mild and inconsequential) consequence on the chin. Its not a bad lesson for your daughter to learn. Or even to learn that sometimes rules seem to be daft or make no sense but we still have to rub along

but its not just a daft rule. You are making out like it’s just her being a bit defiant and wearing earrings when she was told not to. It is one that could have serious health consequences. People go to hospital with heatstroke ( I know as it’s happened to me and it’s not much fun).

Only secondary schools, in my experience. But yes, it's totally ridiculous.

I teach Year 6, and every year the Heads of Year 7 at the local secondary schools come to meet the kids who are going to their school and tell them a bit about it. The first year I taught Year 6, one of these HoY7 told the kids that they'd need to ask for permission to take their blazers off in lessons. I burst out laughing, assuming he was having them on. He wasn't.

Those of us in the UK all experienced the extreme weather yesterday though .

You seem to be saying as a teacher you have no autonomy to apply your common sense to relax uniform rules when students are physically suffering in front of you in a classroom because of blanket ‘management’ rules .
This system needs addressing to give teachers increased power to adapt if temperatures are abnormal . A human being can’t work effectively when physically uncomfortable.

Several pps have said up thread that they left teaching because of petty uniform rules .
I really feel we need to reflect on our obsession with school uniforms in England & ask ourselves why ( for example ) Belgium has far better educational outcomes and pupil/ student happiness whilst in school across the board without requiring them to wear it .

This made me genuinely laugh . Thank you .