Is it just a societal norm? (Breastfeeding related)

[Emerald95]

Inspired by last night's controversial opinions thread.
Many women on the thread were saying breastfeeding your child after 6m/1y/2y was weird and by that age a child should be on cow's milk.

I think it is odd to take away the milk made for your baby, and replace it with a cow's breastmilk made for a calf.
Why is giving a child cow's breast milk so normalised? Is it simply because that is what that generations before have done and thus become a societal norm?

I am not a vegan, or even a vegetarian. I am not against consuming animal products but it just seems very weird to be swapping milk produced by a mother for her specific child for milk made by a cow for her calf.

I understand when a child is older and away from their mother for longer periods of time at nursery ect that cow's milk would then be easier. But when the child is mainly at home with their mother, say under the age 3, why should she choose a cow's breastmilk over her own?

Those who hold the view that young children should move onto cow's milk instead of breastfeeding, why?

YABU- Cow's milk is better for a young child
YANBU- Swapping a young child from their mother's Breastmilk to Cow's breastmilk is weird

What a load of rubbish! Bones are replenished more actively the longer you breastfeed so mums who breastfeed for longer actually have a reduced risk of osteoporosis after menopause. Nature wouldn't make it detrimental to the mothers health to breastfeed past 6 months when the norm for humans is 2 yrs to 7 yrs. It's just unusual in our WEIRD* society

The acronym WEIRD stands for Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic

Toddlers adjust I was back at work ft from 11 month mark both times. They just had a big feed in the morning and immediately when picked up then again before bath they would drink water at nursery (both completely refused milk).

@ToasterFuckUP referred to feeding throughout the day not just first and last thing

Toddlers adjust, and so does milk supply. I had to go back to work at 6 months because we didn't get 39 weeks mat leave back then, initially I expressed twice a day but by 9 months my DC were happy to drink whatever during the day and equally happy to be bf morning, night and when they wanted at weekends. It was fine.

At 20 months, my toddlers were feeding about 3 times a day... First thing in the morning, last thing before bed, and sometimes one other time in the evening. Work didn't interfere with this at all.

I worked full time until very recently and whenever I was with her during the day she would still feed frequently. She still does 3 full days without me now and she feeds immediately when I get home and throughout the day on the other days.

I went back to work full time when my first was 6 months old and still bf him until age 2. He was still feeding during the day at 18 months.

These people lack education. They're just stupid, it's as simple as that.

Humans evolved as follows:

Mother and baby together 24/7
Family together 24/7 - providing protection and support for nursing mothers
Young humans to breastfeed until at least 6-7 years (when ‘milk teeth’ fall out)
Families to remain together in tribes, each member having their own role in supporting the tribe, for all their benefit. Hunting and gathering are the main means of providing food.

Jump forward in time. Agriculture is invented. Suddenly other food stuffs are available and some can be given to babies. None of them are a match for breast milk, but they’ll do. Crucially, feeding breast milk substitutes to babies allows women to contribute to the huge demand for labour that is needed to prepare, plant, nurture, harvest, process and store food crops. Ok, so none of the substitutes are as good but overall caloric intake has increased. Yes, children probably get sick and die more often, or just don’t thrive - but at a population level agriculture pushes up reproductive rates.

Its cows milk because they are the domesticated animal that produces the most milk - you don’t see horses or pigs being milked at commercial levels. Goats, a little bit. But cows - and the animals they have been bred from over the years - were by far the best candidate to produce a breast milk substitute.

And the rest, as they say, is history. The economic benefits of breaking the mother / child breastfeeding dyad are too high for society to not exploit . Now we put women out to work so that they can pay for all the things that replace them, it’s better for the economy that way.

I just find it so disappointing that Mumsnet and Mumsnetters are not more pro breastfeeding. I mean, even the bloody logo has a bottle in it!

I think most people are pro breastfeeding but for one reason or another are unable to breastfeed their babies. I couldn't do it and not for want of trying the first time. I'm not going to beat myself up about it, nor make other people feel shit about it either.

I breastfed until 22 months and agree that there's a weird taboo about it in this country. I did feel like I almost had to justify BFing after a year, it was only mornings, naps and nights past 1 so it's not even if I did it in public really.

Mumsnet does also seem weirdly against breastfeeding which I find ironic, and I largely suspect the Venn diagram of anti trans posters (claiming to be so for womens rights) and anti extended breastfeeding posters, is a circle... 🤭

Maybe its just a bit of an overall older, middle class, conservative vibe here.

I breastfed until almost 3. DD has never had cows milk and she’s 17.

Luckily in the uk we have feeding options for healthy babies.

Are you saying you think most women can’t bf? Or am I misunderstanding you?

I absolutely agree that nobody should be made to feel shit about how they feed their babies. The trouble is, on Mumsnet you can’t say anything positive about bf without being told that you mustn’t because it will make other people feel shit. So it’s difficult to offer or seek advice.

The reason deciduous teeth fall out at 6/7 is because jaw size is large enough for adult teeth. Just because they are colloquially known as milk teeth doesn’t mean there must be a link with weaning off breast milk.

its highly unlikely our ancestors had 6/7 year gaps between children and since tandem feeding doesn’t seem to occur in any mammals in the wild it seems unlikely the natural weaning age was ever so late.

But what does it matter? How you personally chose to feed your kid doesn’t invoke any reaction in me at all. I wouldn’t be at all disappointed if one day we wake up and not one single mother in the UK is breastfeeding. Or vice versa. How any other mother in the world chooses to breastfeed has absolutely nothing to do with you and you shouldn’t feel disappointed, joyful, or any other emotion when thinking about how someone else chooses to feed. It’s entirely irrelevant to your life! I combi-fed mine, it had zero bearing on how my friend fed hers. Infact, I don’t know how she did because we never spoke about it.

Are you saying you think most women can’t bf? Or am I misunderstanding you?

No, sorry, I wasn't clear. I think many women (not all obvs) who bottle feed have tried and failed to breast feed. In the 90s you were totally made to feel like crap by the nurses and midwives and HV to boot if you didn't. I didn't breast feed any of mine but I'm pro bf if it's possible. I would've if I could've.

its not just that you can’t say anything positive about it - its that you cannot even disagree with statements like “bf past 6
months is unnecessary” or “BF past a year is for the mother not the child” without being told that you shouldn’t care, that it’s shaming and smug to talk about breastfeeding, that there’s no need to think you’re a better mother just because etc etc.

i am not smug or think I’m better but I am allowed to say that I believe that statements like “babies should only be bf until 6 months” are nonsense and harmful!

@PothasProblemsums it all up very well. I breastfed my DS until he was three and a half, I would of personally done it until he was ready to stop but unfortunately I weakened and the pressure of comments from others got to me. I'm proud of the positive feeding relationship I had with my son though and he's said he remembers how cuddly and warm he felt.

Personally I find people who don't even want to try breastfeeding odd, but that's me being judgemental about things that don't concern me. I accept that and wouldn't publicly share that thought as I understand how much it may hurt someone. I haven't always been so breastfeeding positive either I didn't even really want children but when I fell pregnant decided I'd do it as I kept being told 'it's best'. I then found it incredibly easy and getting my son to eat solids incredibly hard so we continued, it genuinely seemed to fix every baby/toddler illness/sleepless night/tantrum.

I find mumsnet very anti breastfeeding so I suppose I wasn't shocked seeing all those comments.

No different than you can’t be positive about using formula? Many on Mn are judgemental on anyone doing something different than they do.

You are publicly sharing that you’re judgemental of those of us who don’t try to breast fed. Why - it doesn’t make you a better mother.

I would last night's thread shows some people do in fact feel very strongly with their anti breastfeeding views. But I agree, everyone's circumstances are different so there is no 'right way' for everyone

@Parker231 of course it doesn't, I completely agree and I'm afraid I don't have a perfect answer for you. My response was that judgement is just as stupid and illogical as someone setting a time frame on how long breastfeeding is acceptable for.

Apart from the awful thread yesterday I find mumsnet full of breast feeding mums more than formula mums. Perhaps that’s because my child was formula fed and I just notice the difference more? I think I see the same things about people claiming teacher bashing is the only opinion about schools or that everyone is pro sleep training? We might just notice the people who disagree with us more?

I always think it’s the people who are the least secure in their decisions that have the most to say.

I don’t know what thread posters are referring to but there were comments yesterday that you are selfish using formula as you aren’t putting your baby first and that you shouldn’t work at all if your baby is under the age of one and only part time until the age of three - some posters are totally odd and don’t live in the real world!