To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

@llizziegood point.
we are in the fortunate position where DPs are well off, but to give them the level of support I ideally think they need, I would have to either give up my job or take on a much lower paid part time position so I can drive the 50 mile each way journey 2-3 times per week.
If they try to give me enough money to realistically cover that, then there’s tax implications plus they may need that money for care homes.

I am 55 so if I don’t get a decent contract when this one ends- which sadly generally means full time work- then that part of the job market will start closing off to me.

The obvious answer is those who do have money should use it for funding care when they need it, otherwise their adult offspring have no chance of having some saved when they reach that age.

The whole point with the elderly needing help is that they think they are saving money to leave to their DC and will not pay for home helps.

If on retirement DPs have a state pension and a private pension, surely they should not be sitting on their income to give to DC and make them work for it? They will need less help in the future if they start paying for help now.

Is it right that they should save their money to leave to their family and leave themselves without help? It depends on how young they were whether they have children to work for, but what I am trying to say is that it is better for DC not to expect to inherit anything in favour of someone doing dps housework.

At the moment she's fine and not in need of any care and has her own home etc if she had to sell for care but she's not showing any signs of needing any care. She's just very introverted and exists to just fall out with people, push people away, threatens to kill herself fairly regularly in a nonchalant way. She ticks every box for borderline personality and I ventured it with her doctors once who have had to deal with her mental health issues and they didn't seem to want to look into it or particularly speak to us as her family about it.
She's one of these people that was shoved into a life of diazepams and lorazepams maybe 40 years ago now rather than helped, I don't think she was designed to be a mother and mentally wasn't great at times and could be quite violent.

Some elderly people will turn down help that does not cost them anything though. My mother could have had free at home carers (in Scotland) but she did not want it as she claimed she had no need of it and refused to alllow any assessment of her needs. She was recovering from 2 broken hips in a delapidated house. I was helping as best i could but not easy with a severely disabled teenager requiring 24/7 care. it wasn't easy. I really don't know how these mental blocks can be fixed. Getting a stairlift in was like the Battle of Stalingrad only tougher !

I'm speaking on the first messages in this thread because I can't bring myself to read the rest. What a pack of horrible, ungrateful bastards you all are. To speak of your parents like they're a disgusting inconvenience because they're old. I'm glad I'm nothing like you. I nursed my grandparents until they passed and ill do the same for my mother despite not having the greatest of relationships, because it's what you do. Imagine actually thinking it's ok to tell them to sort out their own care and don't think of asking me I'm too busy enjoying my own life. Selfish to the core. Horrible horrible people.

@WorkItUpYourBangle

Don't worry, there's been plenty of pushback as the thread has progressed, and an interesting and realistic discussion of the pros and cons of caring for elderly parents.

Unless parents have been particularly vile to their offspring, most favour a middle ground and have love as a motivation.

Apparently the OP has form for courting controversy.

What happens if no one accepts responsibility? Is the old person just put in a home by a social worker? It could soon be commonplace, with the increase in single child/child free families.

OP is a troll. She has form.

As with a lot of things in life, I think a balance can be found in the middle, but finding that balance can be difficult, especially when you are dealing with deteriorating health. I did help my parents but found that assessments and putting care in place took so long that by the time the carers were in the house they found the needs had increased and a higher level of care was required, so I started again on the merry go round of arranging assessments and trying to put an increased level of care into place. In the meantime, I tried to pick up all the slack. My physical and mental health suffered. This is something I realised very few people talk about - the effect of caring on the carers. I was trying to juggle an already full life with unpredictable caring duties thrown on top. I think it is good people are now talking about planning for retirement on mumsnet. Folk are talking about downsizing, planning downstairs showerrooms etc. I hope this will include financial planning including planning for care.

Exactly. Many older folk don't like spending money at all. Even if they can see they have plenty of it, they don't want to spend it on what feels like an extravagance e.g. a cleaner or home help.
The next generation will be different as (maybe with more women higher up in the workplace) hiring in help is no longer seen as extravagant but fairly normal, for the well off.
Hiring in someone to also prep simple meals is not that much of a step. Then them helping with bedtime routine is a natural progression.
I can easily see older people having an entire family "live in" where the couple do the healthcare and housecare and their children get to live with them in a nice house near nice schools.
Almost full circle back to Downton days.

It isn't 'what you (plural) do', it's what you (singular) do. You have chosen to nurse your grandparents until they died and you will nurse your mum if she needs it, even though it sounds as though she wasn't a great mum.

The OP's views are extreme as she seems to have a good relationship with her parents, and she has form for creating goady threads so how much of what she says is genuine is hard to determine.

However, hands-on elderly care should be a choice and people who don't or can't do this shouldn't be villified. Certainly parents who didn't give their children a good childhood should not automatically expect these children to make the sort of sacrifices that are needed to provide nursing care.

People who have had good childhoods with caring and supportive parents who then completely wash their hands of their parents when they become old and frail are selfish and unkind. However, horrible parents who weren't kind or caring to their children are just as selfish and unkind if they then expect their adult children to care for them and support them in their old age.

Caring for your children is a legal requirement, caring for elderly parents is not.

@BoudiccaRuledsadly not sure the next generation will be any different. The human will to survive is strong and it appears to me that when it comes to it, most people would rather deny an unpleasant reality through pretending it’s not happening and deceiving themselves that their adult offspring are just offering a modicum of support, whilst said person is pretzelling themselves trying to manage care and work.

This has been my experience with my DPs certainly, despite what they said previously about not wishing to be a burden.

Its hard because despite what people say about wanting to do it because they love their DPs, often it comes down to a stark choice between doing what’s best for the DP or doing what’s best for yourself. Most of us end up with an ungainly compromise that makes neither of us very happy.

You are on your way to a sainthood.

I think it also depend on what kind of relationship you’ve had with them previously and what you already do for them. If, as I suspect, the answers are ‘cordial’ and ‘not a great deal’, then I think it’s a bit much to ask you take over as part time carer.

I got a preview of this recently when we were visiting an elderly relative abroad - we had planned to spend some relaxing days with her, but she had concocted a full programme of either shopping for her, or running a wide variety of other errands, including multiple trips to different medical facilities. She herself wouldn’t accompany us on our trips to supermarkets and other outlets, but she would have an minimeltdown when what she requested wasn’t available, and usually wasn’t happy with whatever we bought for her in any case.

She was completely sour when we took ourselves off to do something else for one day (!) in the whole trip. The main reason being she’s too tight to pay for any kind of help and prefers to live in semi-poverty rather than go shopping at the local market (‘too expensive’), or pay for taxis to clinics, despite having savings in a six figure sum.

She’s obsessed with leaving it all to her niece (who she barely knows and has met maybe 3 or 4 times) who has long covid and can’t work. Any kind of expenditure would diminish the bequest.

To everyone saying the least you can do is help with medical appointments/advocacy. Can you suggest how when you work full time and most medical appointments are mon-fri? Do you all have jobs you can just float in and out of? Take time off at short notice? Or do you all work part time and have husbands supporting you financially?
Genuinely curious as a full time working single parent how I'm meant to do this. My mum has non stop medical appointments and is never away from the doctors or various consultants. My dad is still around but currently temporarily incapacitated and she's had to get taxi's as I can't afford to take time off. She's not happy and I know she thinks I'm a terrible daughter, she's very passive aggressive so she makes sure I know! But other than lose my home and starve I'm not sure how I'm meant to be able to do this?

Caring for your kids is a legal requirement perhaps, but housing and supporting adult kids is not. Yet nearly everyone I know is doing that now.

I am always baffled by the way MN claims that adult kids should always have a home with their parents, a house deposit, loans, childcare etc but apparently kids have no obligation to do anything for their parents, ever. Yes, I know kids didnt ask to be born etc etc! Neither did parents.

To be honest very few of us who have elderly parents now would have had that kind of support. A lot of us, like myself were on our own from age 16-18. It was unheard of in the 80's to stay with your parents as an adult.

I am supporting my kids in this way because we are in London and rents are ridiculous. I don't take rent either! Does that entitle me to occasional tech help? I hope so, but yes, yes I don't expect it.

I also support my mum and hope to support her more as she ages.

Assuming this is all true, I think the OP's attitude would be pretty simply explained by them scoring unusually high on the psychopathy scale.

I don't mean that in a derogatory way (very genuinely - most who score highly are not evil criminals(!) but functioning members of society) but someone who would score very highly on that scale will be almost incomprehensible to someone (the majority) who would score low, and vice versa.

Each seem utterly illogical to the other and the base frame of reference for making decisions is almost completely different.

You just end up talking past each other.

My mom is 65, a happy and healthy widow. My MIL similar. Both live in different countries than me. Both have their adult sons/daughters living nearby. My mom's mom is 89 and living with her youngest daughter's family (separate households/entries though). My children are still in a primary, but they will be grown-up by the time my mom needs help. I am not expecting the state to look after her (in my country of origin children are legally obliged to look after their elderly parents/sponsor care, etc.). I cannot even imagine abandoning my mom, should she need care. If need be, I will move in back with her when my children are all grown-up. I'm always a little taken aback by the coldness of others here. Don't you have any love left in your hearts?

Yes, in some countries without social care, children are obligated to look after parents.

I am sorry for you, because it is unbelievably hard on DC. Do people realise that? Does the average maninthestreet really understand the predicament many adults approaching their own retirement are being forced to do a full time job and look after parents?

I blame authorities who always ask if the elderly person has children and why aren't they doing more? It is wrong, and I think they know it. They think they are helping, but actually they are encouraging the elderly to think that it is their job to look after their parents. Well it might have been 100 years ago, when women did not work full time and the husband earned for both of them. In those days - and not that far back now, actually - wives and mothers could do that, but times are different and no one should expect that of adults needing to keep their jobs to get their pension.

I think there should be life assurance policies which enable the person to use it what they are in need of help.

That's because you're young and fit, like a lot of posters on this thread who have yet to hit middle age and some of the health problems that can come with that. Come back when you're 65 yourself with your own health issues looking after a 90 year old because that is the reality for a lot of women these days.

Interesting point. The OP also says "My husband has a chronic illness that sadly probably will result in him needing dialysis, maybe an organ donation from me, maybe care over a period. I took on that responsibility when we hitched and while I very much hope we just die cleanly together in a dramatic meteor strike at 82 I am prepared for worse outcomes." Is this some sort of compartmentalisation that fits in with that?

My health issues - very few luckily - only kicked in after my 70th birthday. I was 62 when my mum died, aged 97, and had a few years of caring behind me. One of my most cherished memories is sitting with her when suddenly out of nowhere she said “You’re a good daughter, I’m pleased with you”. A decade later it still brings a lump to my throat.